Mike Cernovich on Epstein, Demons & Spirituality, and Feds Embedded in the Conservative Movement

Here's the episode. How do you live on the internet?

So there was a point where I was on a real arc to be a big deal. And then my brain was getting fried. I looked at videos of myself, my face was all red. I was just having this inflammation because of cortisol. And I was getting calls from people in DC three or four in the morning.

And I was breaking a bunch of stories. So I was like, oh, phone, kids. And I realized I was losing myself to this world, this digital world. And then I go, man, I don't want to... This sucks, dude.

I'm going to have to figure something out.

No, you lost about five or 10 pounds of water because you're not.

. Oh, the buzz, the buzz. Oh, I got to respond to that.

Yeah. And then...

Can you get this thing to Tucker?

Get this to Trump. And I go, no, man, this is not really what it's about. So the only real way to describe how I ended up in this weird world was it was a gonzo. It was a ride. It wasn't a deliberate, calculated move.

How can I become a whatever? Because I was an influencer before there was a term influencer. I was recognized in public for what I wrote on the internet. This is before you can make any money doing it. This was before there were brand deals.

This was just people had blogs or people on social media blowing off steam or goofing off or whatever. And so I was very early to what's now known as an influencer.

You live in California, but you're not from there. You're not basically where you decided, where you thought you would be 20 years ago, but you start succeeding in this new world. But I still don't understand how it came to you that you don't want to be as successful as you.

I wanted to be, I was, I have a story about this. I won't say who it is, but I was having dinner with a friend of mine and I was working on my next book, which was called audacity, how to go from nobody to somebody. And it was a discussion of again, influencing before people knew them as influencers. And it was about brand building, getting your message out, rhetoric. And I was having dinner with my friend and he goes, you know what, by the time you finish this book, you're not going to publish it.

And you're going to call it how to become a nobody. And I kind of laughed and said, Oh, ha, ha ha. He was, he was right. I never released the book. And.

Cause I, my whole philosophy is. Wait, how did you come to that? Did your wife?

I don't know anything. People occasionally send me this. Have you seen this? No. And I'm not trying to act like I'm too cool for school, but I don't do that because you'd Google your name, you'd name.

search yourself on Twitter. What are people saying? Do I got to respond to this? And you become a little, you become a brand, not a person, right? Or you become an account.

That's how they refer to people on X, formerly known as Twitter. Oh, that's an account. And I say, no, but that's what happens. You lose your humanity and you're no longer humanity. You're more like a cyborg.

or you're living in an augmented reality of social media where you, whoever you are, doesn't exist. And you're engaging in some kind of performative dance for a mob of people who are, who necessarily, don't necessarily, have your best interests in.

Yeah. Taylor Lorenz. Taylor Lorenz. Yeah. Um, who's on one hand is loathsome, but every time I've ever seen her, I just, maybe I have too many daughters.

I feel so sorry for her because she's clearly been destroyed by what.

They ham it up for the camera. Yeah. And I had always been the opposite. So for me, my biggest, if I had an influence on this, it was, I don't know if you ever watched him, Dr. Eugene Scott, on satellite radio.

Well,

Yeah. The guy, the public access guy, who would sit in a chair on the telephone and yell at viewers. Yes. When I, when I was in like sixth or seventh grade, my brother and I would fire up a bowl and watch her watch, Dr. Gene.

And he hated his viewers. He would say, you're not, you're disgusting. I told you to send me money into his phone bank behind him. That's the guy,

Eugene Scott and he. he's probably the greatest influence on me and how I do. media, because I'll go on these. Is anyone listening to this or watching this? Just hit.

Yeah. Yeah. He.

Get all the telephones. And then they have these horse videos, because he was a horseman and you just have to see these horses videos. And I thought this is the coolest mofo that I've ever seen in my life. This guy's amazing. And he.

guy, he'd know all this trivia. And I thought, man, that's cool. I kind of want to be that guy.

So for me, that was one of the few things that I could watch and I could watch it with my dad. And I was, I was obsessed with his delivery style. I thought it was cool that he just sat around and read books. Cause, if you think about it, people go, what do you do for a living? And the answer is that I read books and write about what I read and what I find interesting.

That's it. And there's no more there to it than that, but there's a lot of there there, if you look at it in that context. So he would be framed by piles of books and it would be the most weird stuff, at least growing up in a small town book. She'd never heard of, we didn't have amazon.com back then. And I thought that'd be cool.

I just sit around, read books, talk, shit, yell at people who are watching you, scream, go on, tirade, smoke cigars.

I think that he was happy and enjoying what he was doing. I viewed it much less that he had contempt for his audience, but more that he was a rabble rouser and he was doing a bit of a pro wrestling bit. He was a heel. He was an intellectual heel. So if you look at Ric Flair, was Ric Flair a good guy or bad guy?

Well, Ric Flair didn't hate the audience, right? The bad guys would run in, the Iron Sheik, would run in, cussing people out. He didn't hate his audience. That was his bit, right? So, Dr.

Eugene Scott, that was his bit. He was a heel, an intellectual heel, and he was having fun. And I think the audience was, was in on it. And if the audience is in on the bit, then it becomes fun.

So I can't read history books anymore, because I read these historians on, on X and I go, oh, they're lying about Trump. I can't listen to Dan Carlin podcast, Hardcore History. I can't listen to any of this, because when you read what they're writing about contemporaneous events, you realize there's nothing about them that you can trust in any of their storytelling.

And then I thought, I want to be more of a book. as a metaphor. I'm a book, you read my ex account, you scroll, you read it. That's interesting. You get mad because I maybe word things in a way that you don't like, but you don't really care that much about me, the person, right?

It's more of the words. Whereas when I was doing a lot of live streams, a lot of videos, there becomes more of an emotional component to it, because TV is way more powerful. Video is way more powerful than audio. Video is way more powerful than the written word.

More content. There's a great book on the happiness hypothesis. I've studied the philosopher, I was a philosophy major in college, and I learned that happiness is a dragon, really. It's not a destination. It can only be obtained indirectly.

So I think less about happiness. And I kind of rejected that, oh, are you happy? And more along the lines of, is it meaningful? Is it impactful? Is it significant?

Is it having the desired outcome for the world and the desired outcome for me? And in that regard, much less relaxed, much less stressed out. I have much less cortisol pulsing through my body, that's for sure. And I can wind down easily. So, for example, I can raw dog a hike for hours.

And raw dogging a hike means no audio book, no podcast, no radio,

So I did much less disconnecting from the augmented reality world or the virtual reality world and spent more time in physical world.

in the Biden administration. You register them all to vote. It doesn't matter because they're not going to vote. There's no voter prosecution and there won't be any record of voter fraud by them, but you have all these names now. In a swing state, remember, elections decided not by the popular vote, it's decided by 50 to 100,000 votes in three to four states.

All you do is you need 8,000 votes in Georgia, push them through. 20,000 votes in Arizona, you have all these extra names now added to the voter rolls, push them through. Wisconsin has those drop boxes back, push them through. You don't need to do it on the scale of millions, you just need to do it strategically.

10,000 here, 20,000 here. That is why we don't know what's going to happen in November. There's no way to know.

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wherever you get your podcasts. It's America on Trial with Josh Hammer.

I mean, if that's correct, that's so dark. I almost don't want to dwell on it, but then that's why it would be fine if Biden stayed then.

People saying Trump's up two on this poll, Trump's up three on this poll. None of that matters. It's going to be a hotly contested election and people are getting lackadaisical.

What's being done there? And unfortunately, not much. Unfortunately, people aren't running on the issues that they want to run on. So, for example, I was talking about this yesterday on X and in Orange County, there's a real concern that Orange County could become like the Bolshevik run Los Angeles County. So, a guy ran, Todd Spitzer ran for...

Todd Spitzer ran for district attorney. So, in the district attorney election, the campaign slogan was no L.A. and O.C. He won by a two to one margin. Orange County...

A. None of these homeless encampments, none of this bail reform, so-called happening in Orange County.

You're in a surreal parallel reality where you go, oh no, you see, the way to win Republicans is. you want to enforce the criminal code against people who murder people. You want to actually put criminals in jail. And then you have these weird, surrealist moments in yourself where you think, did I say that? Am I stupid?

This is banal. Why are we talking about this? It's right. And you go, no, but it is banal. It's utterly stupid.

And yet that's where we are as a society. You do have to talk about it. You have to talk about it all the time. You have to remind people of this all of the time, because that is the dumb world that we live in. And it does feel sometimes.

demoralizing, because you feel like you're talking below your intellect, right? As a writer, as a speaker, you want to talk about issues that interest you and that you find novel, right? Oh, I read this book. What's this book you read? What's that about?

Oh, I went down that rabbit hole. That's cool. And so much of our time, unfortunately, has to be devoted to saying, okay, Republicans, crime is bad. People don't want crime. You're running.

You need to talk about crime. And then you see them talking about everything but crime. And you think, no, okay, I have to grab you by the shirt.

It's local, right? Running for Congress is not a national ballot referendum. It is a local election. And they don't understand these things. And you think, how do you not understand these things?

And then I think, I'm wasting so much of my time with mediocre people who either have no will, or there really are this dumb, and what am I doing with my life? So that's where you have these existential crises.

So why wouldn't they talk about it? It can't just be stupidity. They feel pressure not to.

So when the Orange County district attorney ran for office, the media, of course, attacked him, smeared him, fascism, far right, this, that, but he overwhelmingly won. And, as you know, Republicans are controlled by the media in terms of the narrative. They're so afraid of a hit piece, right? They're so afraid of negative press coverage that they allow the.

And I say, no, if you read the verses in the Bible, they say, you gotta be gentle as a dove, but wise as a serpent, right? Everybody skips over that part. And you have to ask, where's the serpent type wisdom? Where are you not understanding these issues? Where are you not thinking?

Where are you not being shrewd? And they aren't, they have this nativity and they have this gullibility, and they have this weakness that comes from being too nice. So the biggest problem, one of Nietzsche's great criticisms of Christians that I think has held up well with the inversion of morality and how Christians became a morality of a slave type, morality, which is self-sacrifice, self-abnegation, denial of yourself. Well, in one way, these are good Christian virtues, which is if you think your ego is getting out of control, it might be good to become a little bit less relevant. It might be good to take a step back from the limelight.

These might be good things to do for your heart, but that doesn't mean you let somebody kick in the door and torture you to death, right? Or rape your wife or hurt the people you love. Or kill people, whatever the case is. You don't let that end up like the czar lined up against the wall with your family while the Bolsheviks kill you, right? There's too much of that strain of weakness that has infected a lot of the modern Christian traditions to where they don't have really an understanding of it.

And Ned Flanders, by golly gee, can't we all get along kind of types. And then, because of that, they're more open to being persuaded by evil forces, because they don't have that strong grounding and that courage to stand up against evil.

Humans are still capable of experiencing divine grace and experiencing God's love, whereas the demons who rebelled during the are not. So what they want to do is implement anti-humanist policies and have human suffering and have human despair. And you can feel that force again, whether it's a literal one involving actual forces, or whether that's a metaphor, you could say the evil would be anti-human.

. That suggest outside forces that are not human acting on humans.

I mean, that is kind of the difference.

No, it isn't. Your life's in a bad spot. It sucks. It might suck for a while, but your life is not over. So then what is that despair?

When I think about these terms and I think of what is evil or what I think is demonic, I think in terms of the worst thing you can do as a person is despair. Because one, that rejects the divinity of Christ, because you're rejecting that, you can be saved. Because if you're despairing, then you're saying that I reject Christ, right? That's probably, if not the greatest sin, one of the greatest sins, because I'm in despair. Okay.

Therefore, you don't believe Christ can save you. You're completely under control of the forces, right? The dark forces. And then I think of evil in terms of causing human suffering.

We're not even in communist China era under Mao. We're not in the Cambodian genocide. So there's a lot of, and this goes back to maybe why Republicans are so weak, a lot of us have been so psychologically coddled that we view things as being insurmountable problems that we can't solve. I think it was Mao who said that Americans would break if there were ever a war in America. World War II, everybody was bombed.

That was real despair. We were the guys over there helping the British bomb people, right? Certainly. In America, we weren't being bombed. Women had to go work at factories and other things, but it was nothing like Europe and their wars.

So in America, we're so psychologically coddled that we think, oh, we're losing our country. You're always losing your country. Time does not stop. The world is not static. There's always forces being pushed.

There's always a dialectic. There's always good versus evil. There's always been lower points in humanity and higher points in humanity. So we don't know where we are, even on the cosmic timeline, on God's timeline, on the demon's timeline, on the angel's timeline. We don't even know where we are, first of all.

That's mistake. number one, is that we are, in our own mind, gods, and we understand the moment that we're in, and we understand that the moment that we're in is so unique and that there's a narrative arc happening that is either over and we've won, because you never win, or we're losing and, oh my God, we fall into despair. So the problem is, I call it like the Marvel movies capture this. well. You don't watch TV or movies, and I can't even watch them because they're so formulaic.

But the idea is, here are the people, bad guys come in, destroy things, hero emerges, good guys come in, good guys beat bad guys, good guys kiss the girls, the end. And that's what we love in the American mind. But if you looked at it and you zoomed out, not from that simple narrative arc that we love as Americans, you would say, well, now all these buildings were blown up. People are dying. People have lost sons and daughters.

People are wailing in agony in ways that we can't begin to comprehend. And you haven't even won, because there'll be another bad guy. There'll be another bad guy coming down. So what do you mean? you've won?

The good guys won. No, the good guys have resolved the conflict in their favor, and now you have to rebuild, and then you have politics and people fighting as they rebuild. Who's going to get the contracts? Who's getting ripped off? You have all these kids now that you have to watch out for.

What are you going to do with them? So when you think of it in that way, it can either make you despair more because you feel totally helpless, oh my god, these problems are way worse than I thought, or you realize, ah, we're going through a thing. We're going through a thing. Okay, this is a bad thing we're going through. Let's see what we can do about it.

So there's a term that I picked up from the ayahuasca kind of people in that little scene, and I think it comes from addiction, and they say the only way out is through, right? Yeah. And it sounds sort of glib, the only way out is through. What does that even mean? But it means when you're in the shit, you're in the shit.

You're in the shit, bro. What do you want me to do? You want me to hold your hand? You want a milk and cookie? You want a little snuggle?

You want a baby bottle? You're in the shit, bro. What are you going to do? Sit there and cry yourself to sleep? No, you just keep going.

The only way out is through, right? So when you adopt that as the way you live, it doesn't mean you don't have bad days, but you realize, yeah, I'm in the shit. Okay, what am I going to do? Call mommy, get a little blankie, maybe have a bottle, suck on my thumb a little bit? No, you're not going to do that, right?

You just keep pushing through. What's the closest you've been to despair?

I mean, I've been in despair, and the human world over money, in hindsight, kind of laughably, small amounts of money. But at the time when you don't have any, and you're like, I wasn't approved for student loans. I got approved for student loans, and then I didn't get approved. And then I thought I was going to have to drop out of law school because I couldn't get my student loans. And now, looking back at it, it's like, wow, I was bugging out over that, right?

But at the time, that's your whole world. So the smaller you define your world, the bigger your problems seem, right? So if you want to have less despair, define your- Yeah.

And then I've definitely had despair over,

despair maybe is not the right word, but close to it where we get Trump over the finish line in 2016.

and he's going in and all of a sudden the people who got him in there are pushed to the side, and all the people who opposed him take over. What do they say? That the people who start revolutions rarely finish them? Yes. And I thought, we're living this right now.

And I was bummed, man. I was bummed that we took all these personal risks, that we made this happen, an impossible feat. And all of the people who are never Trump ended up in the administration, ended up staffing things. And that made you feel like despair. maybe is less of a word than powerless, where you're like, we did the right thing.

And sometimes you feel that way with these Republicans. You're like, we gave you Congress. We gave you Trump. We gave you the White House. We gave you Congress.

We gave you the Senate. And we can't do anything. We can't do anything. Nothing is changing, right? Or we get the Republicans Congress in this last election, and they still send all the money to Ukraine.

And you're thinking, what are you guys doing? They were confirming all these radical judges in the Senate, and they go, oh, well, Lindsey Graham is rubber stamping all these appointments. Well, block him in committee. Do something, right? So you're, in a way, you're screaming into the void.

What are we doing? Why are we doing this? Why do I have all these gray hairs over this stuff? But again, that's me and my own ego. defining the problem small, right?

And then defining the world as small, as everything is based on that one issue, and then that makes the problem seem bigger. Then I just try to zoom out, remind myself we're on a longer timeline. We're on the timeline of infinity. Do what we can do. That doesn't mean give these people a pass.

But the despair sets in when you think, what more do we need to do, right? We've given you guys everything. And even now, with Trump world, Trump is going against a Project 2025 people. And those were his most loyal staffers. These are the adults in the room that he's going to need if he wins.

And a bunch of never Trumpers are at his ear again and telling him to issue statements going against all of these people. And you realize, man, we're going to relive 2017.. But Biden is so bad that we've got to vote for Trump. But the energy isn't the way it was. When we voted for Trump in 2016,, we were not voting the lesser of evils.

That was why a lot of people like me, who didn't care about politics or didn't really care to vote, got involved. Do I really care if it's John McCain, Barack Obama? 100%? I don't. 100%, I don't.

Fair. Do I really care if it's Mitt Romney or Barack Obama? 100%, I don't. Because Mitt would have done more wars. So Obama would do things worse on social issues, but Mitt would have had us in a war with Russia if he could have.

So you think, okay, do I care? Not really. Clinton versus Trump. We're talking about the fate of human civilization. I say this to this day, and I believe with all my heart, that the people who voted for Trump in 2016 did the greatest act of human charity in maybe human history.

Because tens of millions would have died had Hillary Clinton won. They had their whole game plan, bro. They were going to go get in some kind of war with Syria. That would have led to some shootout with Russian mercenaries and American special operations troops. People like Joe King can explain all that.

Eric Prince can explain all that. The table was set for war with Russia. We were able to delay that. So we were able to say-.

They want more humans to suffer. If you look at war from- Good answer. If you look at war and you start with the fundamental definition of evil and what evil is, then you would realize that the demons don't care which side of the war they're on. All they care about are humans are killing each other. That's their own agenda.

So that's why, when I hear people talk about things like, oh, we'll have a civil war in the US, I go, well, that's demonic. And you don't even realize you're a demonic influence. What do you think a civil war is like? Have you looked at what happened in Yugoslavia? You look at the aftermath of that?

Show me where you have a civil war and this is a good outcome, where this is something that you want to- Never. Idealize. Right. It's demonic. But they don't think that.

They're like, well, we're the good guys and we're being oppressed by the bad guys. That is demonic influence. We're the good guys. They're the bad guys. And I, first of all, do believe we're the good guys.

And I do believe that the other side is the bad guys. But once that leads you to down that road, then the demons are smiling because they don't care. Oh yeah, you are the good guys. You're the moral. You're the righteous.

They're the evil ones oppressing you. They worship demons. You're the good Christians. You need to go to war with them. You're still in that frame.

So everything about human flourishing is trying to escape that frame. The framing of the anti-humanist forces, real or metaphorical. And then you realize that there are people who are obviously convening with these evil forces, consciously or unconsciously.

It's not something that you would know. I can tell if somebody's been down that route and you're like, no, no, these people, they don't have.

you are immediately humbled because you laugh at how much pride you might've had as a person. Yes. You think, oh, wow, I thought it was hot shit. Oh, I have nothing here. I have nothing here.

Oh, my goodness. Okay. And that's probably why I was able for me to become less relevant over the years, because the danger is then you become too egoless and you don't do anything, right?

I don't want to do that. But if you don't have a little bit of pride, you don't have a little bit of drive, you don't have a little sizzle, then maybe a message doesn't get across too. So there's constant tension, right? But the spirit world realm, they show me, oh yeah, I mean, there's tension. It's always tension.

It's always duality, right? At yin and yang, if you look at the medical staff, two serpents, you look at DNA, two strands, there's always tension, which is why despair happens when you think that there's a final outcome in one way or another. And then complacency happens when you think nothing matters. And then hubris happens when you think that you've won and the game is all over. And you don't realize Julius Caesar gets stabbed in the back by his grandson-in-law supporters.

Voting for Trump stopped that, at least for the time being, but you felt despair because you felt that Trump himself was subverted, or allowed himself to be subverted, by people who hated him, and it made you feel powerless.

I really, I can't. It's like if you got your kid in a new car and the kid crashed the car right away. while drunk driving. You think, wow, brother, why? Right?

Yeah. Why? Why? But at a magnified intensity, yeah, because it was the country.

No, it's not free. These companies aren't developing expensive products and just giving them to you because they love you. They're doing it because their programs take all your information. They hoover up your data, private, personal data, and sell it to data brokers and the government. And all of those people who are not your friends are very interested in manipulating you and your personal, political, and financial decisions.

It's scary as hell. And it's happening out in the open without anybody saying anything about it. This is a huge problem. And we've been talking about this problem to our friend, Eric Prince, for years. Someone needs to fix this.

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Have you felt despair in the last couple years?

It's a small potatoes. It's so trivial compared to the real war happening and the real forces at work that it's hard to even take seriously. To the point that I have to reel myself back in, but you do have to take it seriously, even if it is small stakes compared to the real conquest. So what are the real stakes? The real stakes is, one, on the individual level, you're a mortal soul.

That's the real stake. The greatest challenge that I have every day is trying to sanctify my own heart and my own soul. Because what I've learned through various experiences and then reading a lot of the old Orthodox Christian wisdom and learning actually how Christianity was supposed to be, it was more and why I never really resonated with Protestantism. So Protestantism, I feel like, is very mind-driven. Here's a scripture.

This is what the scripture said. I'm a Baptist. I can't drink alcohol. And somebody else would say, oh, well, Jesus turned water into wine. And you're fighting sola scriptura.

You're fighting by citing different references in a book that is sometimes contradictory. But the real spiritual traditions... Remember, Christianity started out as a mystical tradition. We look at now as, oh, here's the Bible, and the Bible is the word of God. And you realize, no, the Ethiopian Orthodox Christians have books of the Bible in there that you haven't even read.

You guys are still fighting over whether the book of Enoch is real or not. What are you doing? You think you have the answer? Is it? Do you think?

Oh, for sure. I think it is. And what I've learned is that you can learn from the heart. You have to learn how to think from the heart, rediscover beyond your own conscience, but realize that your heart has its own intelligence, which I thought would be woo-woo, kind of laughable stuff. I'd read these books, The Four Agreements, San Juan Luis, I think his name is, Don Miguel, San Luis.

I would read Paul Coelho and I would think, oh, what a bunch of.

. To be honest, what a bunch of pussies. Come on. I'm a man. I don't want to read about my heart.

I don't want to read about crying. What a fucking... What a bunch of pussies. Who are these people? Honestly, that was my reaction and assessment of a lot of the stuff.

And then I realized that was my own foolish pride, my own hubris. That was realizing that I was afraid of the heart. I was not strong. I was weak because of my own mind. I convinced myself to hide from the heart, because the heart is a source of your pain, also the source of your great joy and love.

So if you live in mind and you live in ego, you constantly paper over heart and you think that's because you're strong. I'm a real man. I don't cry. Where'd that come from? You're a real man.

You don't cry. Why are you afraid of crying? I'm not afraid of crying. That's an interesting reaction, right? So as you do, as you study the more of the mysticism and the real spiritual traditions and how it was practiced, then you realize that the heart is its own intelligence.

And then you're trying to rediscover the intelligence of the heart. And once you rediscover the intelligence of the heart, that's the higher morality. The higher morality isn't the words we create, the rules we draft out. The higher morality is in your heart. But we've become so disconnected and detached from the heart that that sounds ridiculous, or it sounds like pussy shit, you know, woo, woo, pussy shit, right?

Evil is wheat fields being cut down in Ukraine as people kill each other. People who are brothers separated by a line in the sand kill each other. There's no flowers. There's no children dancing. There's no gardens flourishing, right?

That's evil. It's death. Life is love. It's human. flourishing, flowers blooming, children laughing, right?

C.

S. Lewis once said that it was a great feeling of his that he didn't find the laughter of children satisfying. He found it kind of annoying, right? Yes. Well, he'd never had children.

Right. But even not having them, he realized that he was missing. because that's heart. Heart. is you hear a kid crying on a plane.

Oh, I hope the kid's all right. Yeah. Me, being an asshole, shut your fucking kid up. Don't you control your kid. You're weak.

You know. Yeah. That's the ego, the male. And it's that part of me that I was trying to get away from and that I've been still trying to get away from. Right.

The male egos worship me. I'm so great. I'm so relevant. Share my stuff. Read my stuff.

Oh, the president read this. I know this guy and this guy is important. And that's the male ego. And that'll just spin you out of control forever. And then the heart is, man, I kind of snapped on my kid.

I feel bad. I hope my kid's okay. I shouldn't have snapped on my kid. Why did I snap on my kid? Oh, because in that moment, the kid was mirroring something about myself.

I don't like.

And you don't realize, no, it's that part of yourself that's broken. That's what you want to fix, right? Yes. That's what you want to think about. And unfortunately, not enough people talk about it, or it sounds woo-woo, or you get down a certain.

. Well, that's just the most obvious and real thing ever for every parent. I mean, if you, like your wife, I speak for myself. When I see my wife's good qualities reflected in my children, I love it. When I see my bad qualities reflected in my children,

So what do you take away from that when that happens?

And then I think, how can I have that child not continue this, right? How do you break that? How do you break that cycle? And how do you close that loop? And I think that becomes a lot more important than getting people elected into office.

And I think if more of us did that.

She had this little Rubik's cube. And now she's saying, Dad, can we watch a YouTube video on how to solve the Rubik's cube? All great energy, firstborn energy. But a lot of firstborn kids, because they're put into that role. maybe that we as parents have to watch out for, of being a caregiver for other children.

That's right. We want to ask ourselves, one, am I robbing my daughter of the magic of childhood and the wonder of childhood? Hey, go watch your brother. I got to do this, right? Maybe I'm robbing her of the wonder of childhood.

Okay. I need to calibrate that. Sometimes they do. Life is life. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but at least I'm mindful of that.

Or am I having her grow up too fast? Okay. Why don't I just take a walk with her one-on-one? Just take a walk and just talk to my daughter, just about her, what's going on in her mind. Let her ramble on.

Let her talk about what she finds interesting. Don't ask questions or try to direct the conversation. Just let it flow. And then, when you're doing that, you're closing the loop.

Because in my case, I was robbed of my childhood a lot of ways. And because I wanted to grow up, I don't want to get out of the situation. And you realize, no, you're letting them be a kid. We all have to live together. And it isn't perfect all the time, but you're letting the kid be a kid.

Or another thing. first children do is because they have to look at the well-being of everyone, they'll negotiate against themselves, right? My daughter, I don't know if I'm going to ask for this, dad. What do you want to ask for? She's like, well, I don't know if I should ask for it, because I think my other, my sister, I think, wants ice cream, but I really want this.

And I would say, well, don't negotiate against yourself. Ask for what you want. I can still tell you, no, maybe it won't work out, but let's close that loop. Because I noticed that I would negotiate myself against myself sometimes in business dealings. And it was something my wife would point out where, especially because I was never really like a greedy, money-driven person, a lot of times I would be more compliant than you would expect.

giving my personality, right? Giving my personality, you might think, put a dollar on the table and he's going to fight me. I'm thinking, why are we fighting over a dollar? This is stupid. Really, this is dumb.

But people will take advantage of that, right? So I had to learn much later in life, unfortunately, into my thirties. And even now, in my late forties, I had to learn, no, no, you don't negotiate against yourself. Don't worry about them. They're worried about themselves.

They're self-interested actors. They're going to try to get as much as they can out of you. Let them worry about themselves. You worry about yourself. And I realized, oh, that's first child energy, because I was always worried about, is everybody okay?

Is everybody doing all right within the family? realm? Well, keep that to your family. So, with my firstborn, I do want you to negotiate against yourself, with the family. I want you to think about everybody at the family, but I want you to know what you're doing and then have tools to know that when you're going into business or you're doing dealings with other people, put that energy aside, right?

How old is this child? Seven and a half. Does she understand? Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

She's an old soul. Yeah. So a lot of my.

virtues, but a lot of my existential dread, I had a lot of existential dread at a very young age. So one day, for example, she was, I don't know, maybe five or six, but she was young. I remember she was young and I was waiting for this and hoping it wouldn't happen. We were hanging out. one day.

She goes, dad, I feel weird. Why do we have bodies? I thought, oh man, oh no. The genetic, whatever spiritual curse or blessing that has been passed on for all of these centuries or millennia is with her, because that was very much how I felt like a kid. I felt like this body isn't mine.

Why am I here? This doesn't make any sense. I've always felt alienated from my animalistic, materialistic body. I've always felt like it was weird that we had bodies. I was a Gnostic as an early kid.

What is this thing that I'm, what torture am I being subjected to by having to live in a body, right? And there was nobody I could talk to about this kind of stuff. They lock you up like a nut house, right? Sounds like a nutty thing. And I was like, so I told Sean, I said, well, she's asking, you know, she's asking these kinds of questions now, but I'm able to treat them differently.

Maybe then it would have been when I was a kid, or maybe then I would have been treated when I was a kid. What did you say? I said, it's weird, isn't it? What are these things flopping around, right? It feels weird to be kind of disconnected and alienated from your body.

And we're here on a spiritual mission. And that's why we're in these bodies, where this bodies as part of the spiritual mission that we've been sent on since the beginning of time. And that we're on a spiritual mission to discover the mystery of the human bodies. And we're on a mission to elevate humanity and to elevate the human condition. And you have these gifts, but along with that comes the responsibility to elevate the human condition and to elevate society.

But that it is weird,

I don't know.

You don't seem, you wear it very lightly. You don't seem tormented by it. How'd you get over that?

was the brain is inherently to the great book. on this wire for story. We're obsessed with stories, right? Campfire. Tell me a story.

Yes. Regale ourselves of stories. That's how we transmit knowledge, but with our own brain that get, that gets hijacked, because we tell ourselves certain stories and then we often frame them at the most miserable, disempowering way. So me, I define as the story of my childhood, man, that was wild. And I got out of there alive.

What a, what a trip. And you can define it that way. Or you can define it as here, all these things that happened to me, I'm garbage. I don't matter. I'm scum.

I don't deserve love. I don't deserve good things in life. And then you can define that as your story. And if you define that as your story, that's the path of despair. That's.

a little bit, the shame that a man must feel when he loses a job. My goodness, what did my dad go through? So then I got on my own. Myopia. Remember, you know, we always want to define the world larger than ourselves.

The more we focus on ourself, the smaller we define the world, then every problem is so big. That's right. So then I think, oh man, how hard was that? And how generous was it that my grandparents paid off the mortgage of the house? Because that was a $200 a month payment, which was a ton of money back then.

And how different would my childhood have been? And how lucky am I that I got out? And how many things could have gone wrong in my life? And completely all through the course of my life. So, hey buddy, you're so proud of yourself.

You think you're such a great overcomer. How much luck was there? How much of that was divinely inspired? Maybe a little bit of it was. Maybe you need to get over yourself.

Maybe you need to get over your little pity party and realize that things could have gone a lot differently, right? So I'm always consciously reframing the story of myself and the narrative of my life in a way that is zooming out wider and looking at what were other people's problems. A friend of mine, you do ayahuasca. He was beat up as a kid. He had ayahuasca experience and he saw himself getting beat up as a kid.

And he saw his dad, but he saw that his dad was beat up as a kid. And he was like, oh my God, my dad was beat up as a kid. Holy shit. That's why he did it. And it doesn't excuse the child abuse.

But when you zoom out and you realize that was what has happened, then you don't blame yourself. And then if you don't blame yourself, you can forgive yourself, right? Because it's not that you're unworthy. It's not that you don't deserve love. It's that that person felt that way and they transmitted that knowledge in a really horrific way.

And then you're allowed to forgive them and then you're allowed to move on and you're allowed to heal yourself, because it wasn't really your issue, right? And often these realizations are it's very easy to talk about it like it's nothing. But when you're in the shit, when you're in the work, these are not easy conversations to have with yourself. So I get in the shit and I go into those places and I go into the darkest experiences that have happened to me. And then I do feel that torment.

I do feel like I'm being attacked. And then, you know, the only way out is through and.

So if you want to enjoy an ad free experience and keep this going, join TCN at Tucker Carlson dot com slash podcast. Tucker Carlson dot com slash podcast.

What's going on with whites, and not just in this country, but in every white majority country, whites are becoming the minority. They're hated. They hate themselves. They're not reproducing. And the amount of energy expended by our leaders sort of openly disparaging them, encouraging them effectively to kill themselves or to want to kill themselves, is overwhelming.

I'm not saying this as a white man, though, obviously I am. But it's just, it's, it's very.

So you get an Airbnb, you open the outside cage, you go in and then you open another cage to go into the bedroom and then you lock that cage. You have to have all these layers of protection. And I remember talking to some white South Africans about that and they go, oh, well, it's just payback for apartheid. And they shrugged it off. And I said, I can understand maybe a little bit of looting as payback for apartheid.

I can understand a little corruption as payback. But horrific, violent crimes is not a proportionate response to something that people did before you were even born. And ever since then, I've been struck with the mystery of this collective racial guilt that white people carry around, that nobody else does. If you look at any other ethnic or racial group, no one carries around this strange guilt for sins that were committed before you were ever born. And I don't understand it.

I don't understand where that comes from. I don't understand the biological basis for it, the spiritual basis for it. Because carrying around collective guilt, racial guilt, is actually anti-Christian. It doesn't make any sense at all. And it's a knot that I haven't been able to unravel.

I mean, it does.

Everyone hates them. They're dying. But even to say that about whites is like somehow bad or something. And that tells you that we've all internalized this hate white.

It's almost exclusively white male suicide via firearm. And I always said that if you really cared about gun deaths, you would immediately do an intervention into white male suicide, because that is the primary usage of gun suicides.

The real thing you would go after is gang violence, and you'd go after white male suicide. If you cared, if you actually cared about gun deaths, you wouldn't point out the occasional tragic school shooting, which is statistically very unlikely, even though they're horrific when they happen. You would say, okay, we have a gun violence problem to solve. How are they being used? Okay.

Most of the people killing each other with them are gangbangers. And then you have white males killing themselves. Let's do an immediate... I mean, it's laughable to imagine this happening. In a world that were logical and not driven by hatred, you would see all kinds of interventions, public service announcements happening about white male suicide.

It would be one of the biggest issues people talked about. You would say, did you have any idea? Most people think you're lying about the stats when you tell them, oh no, half of the gun deaths that they bring up are suicide and white men are 3.5 times more likely to kill themselves than anyone else. And people are like, that can't be true. Like, well, you can go...

You're telling me that you want fewer gun deaths. And I'm telling you, here's a way to do that. And now you're saying, no, that's actually racist to say that. that's a way to say that. But where does it come from?

I guess that's my.

What is this? And it does seem like it'd be helpful just to acknowledge that this is absolutely real. The numbers show it. The mass migration around the world into majority white countries to make them minority white countries, clearly driven by hate, obviously.

Because if you're American, your whole world is, there's white people, black people. And once you go there, no, no, they-.

Yes.

If the demons could, somehow inside a race war, they don't care what side wins. They only care that a lot of people kill each other, that there's a lot of despair, that there's a lot of suffering, that they can harvest a lot of that negative energy. That's all they care about. So then, when we talk about these issues, for me, it's always challenging, because one, you don't want to make people feel persecuted. You don't want to make people feel oppressed.

I know. It's hard to talk about that, because I care about being called a racist. I'm not a racist. I don't care if they call me that. But because I don't want to inspire self-pity or a sense of persecution in people, because it's really bad for people.

That's exactly right.

So a lot of times you throw your hand up and you think, how do I even handle these issues?

I'm not claiming to be some great guru or whatever. But if you read me long enough, you know that I, generally speaking, believe that if you decide to not be a loser, you can live a good life. You're not going to maybe live your dream life. Right. You're not going to be in the Yankees.

I was never on the Yankees. I'm not Alex Rodriguez. That's fine. You can just accept that you're not going to be that. But if you decide, you know what?

I just don't want to be some pathetic loser, angry all day about politics, getting fat with my mom, who has enabled this behavior. It's true. And if you read me long enough, you know, I believe in you. I'm not going to sell you a lie and tell you that you're going to be anything that you can want to be, because that isn't the way embodiment works, but you can live a good life. And there's a lot to be said for just living a good life, right?

There's a lot to be said for living a nice, normal life. Yes. And so for me, instead of focusing on a lot of the tension issues, I do point them out and identify them. But it's always about, look, man, it starts with you. The system is rigged.

My dad didn't get a job because of affirmative action, a state police job. That was proven when there was a class action settlement. I can point to real things that have happened, racialized issues where we were on the receiving end of the oppression. But if that's all you think about is the world is rigged, I can't really do anything. Now.

you're given into despair. The world is rigged. It's always been rigged, bro. World War One, you're going to get drafted and thrown in to fight in Europe and the trenches because the French and the English can't get along and the Germans and the Australian Hungarians are beefing again because the European, right? So the timeline is always helpful too, at the micro level.

At the micro level, you think, and this is the message I kind of always teach is usually directed towards men, is there are a lot of people who are despair mongers and they want you to think that all women are terrible. You're a white man. You're oppressed. Nothing you do matters. Everything is going to be-.

Lying is evil. On the other hand, marinating in it clearly doesn't help. So you're a 19-year-old American man. A lot of things are, factually speaking, stacked against you, but you don't want to be a loser and be mad about politics and fat and living with your mom, as you so nicely described. What do you do and what do you avoid?

And it was just very matter of fact, because that was the old school kind of masculine thing, which is, I mean, you're a chubby kid. You're getting picked on. You got to learn how to fight and you're just going to have to fight people. And that's just the way it's going to be. Yes.

That's what I was taught. Whereas the mom, the feminine wants to nurture, which is good, but then that also enables. So everything, if you look at things energetically, the masculine draws boundaries, but then it can become too harsh and unforgiving. And that's why God has man and woman, but the woman will enable, oh, baby boy, oh, you're sad. Oh, let me give you some ice cream.

Oh no, you have a bad day. And so you have to have that duality of energy, that struggle that creates a complete person, or a whole person. So if you're 19,, you would just want to have a, everything starts with you with a piece of paper and a pen, and you're just assessing where your life is. And you're asking yourself, I don't know, was I enabled by a overly nurturing mother? Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe your problem's different. Maybe your dad was a dick and he didn't give you love. And so now you struggle with love and you're too harsh, whatever it is. But you just sit down and you start assessing where you are in life, realizing that, especially if you're 19,, everybody who's old and rich would love to be 19 again. Right?

One, you have all the wealth in the world, even if you don't think of it that way. And I wish somebody had told me that when I was younger. Warren Buffett trades places with you in a second. Here, you can be me as an 80 year old billionaire, and I'll be 19 again, with whatever bad position you're in. Would you take the deal?

Every billionaire? would. You think Bill Gates wouldn't take that deal? That's why they're all obsessed with transhumanism. They're trying to figure out a way to get into younger bodies, right?

That's what ultimately transhumanism is about, is the fear of mortality, the rejection of God, the rejection of the infinite. So in your own mind, you're thinking, how can I be in a younger body? So one is like, what are you crying about, bro? Right? What are you crying about?

You have time to fix it. It's going to take five years. Get on a five-year timeline. Everybody's on this short timeline, right? If you're in a bad position, and you've probably seen this with people who, when they give in despair, they're just not thinking of the timeline.

So, oh, your business failed. Okay. You're probably going to be broke, dude, for a couple of years. You're not going to be like not broke in a day, but you're not going to be broke in five years if you set yourself on the right path, or whatever your problem is. It's just going to take time, bro.

It's going to take five years, but start taking immediate action right now, in whatever way you can. For me, the easiest thing in the world to do, if you're a young man, just start reading old books. I said, just what books? Go. look up the great books of Western civilization.

Read a hundred great books. Go to the gym four times a week. Call me in a year. You won't call me in a year, because you'll be kind of figuring things out, right? So what happens is, and again, I blame movies and I blame.

narrative. I learned a lot from the postmodernists, even though they're often attacked on the right. The idea of postmodernism and examining narrative structures and how narrative structures control thought. So the narrative structure is, you're a man, you find the green hornet ring and you become some kind of superhero, or you're a man and your long lost father is actually half God and he's going to send you on this hero's journey and they're going to send you your sword and shield, right? If you look at mythology and you look at the narrative structure people have, even if people don't recognize it, they will.

now, if they listen, unconsciously, you believe someone's going to save you. The mentor appears. If you look at the hero with a thousand faces, if you look at the hero's journey, you look at all these narrative structures embedded in our unconscious, is, oh, I'm kind of sitting at home. I'm Anakin Skywalker on a desert island, orphaned, adopted, whatever the case is. Oh, the Jedi's find me.

The Jedi's train me. And then I go on my journey. The mentor appears, bro. The mentor doesn't appear. That's fake.

Okay. So get it out of your mind that the mentor is going to appear and rescue you from your situation. You got to be your own mentor, right? And then, once you start from that at a deep level, realizing nobody's coming to save you, and that's fine. That shouldn't make you afraid.

You have to realize that was what's holding you back, because you, you kept waiting for the great awakening, the great moment, to appear. It's not going to happen. You're just going to get older and decay and give into entropy. So you're your own mentor. Go read the great books of Western civilization, go to the gym three, four times a week, and then tell me where you are in a year.

And by that time, you'll, you'll find your path, but you have to believe that you can find the path, right? And nobody will do that. What are, what are the traps, the stumbling blocks along the way for young men? Thousands. You get somebody pregnant, you lose yourself, you drink and drive.

I don't think anyone gets anyone pregnant anymore. Unwanted teen pregnancies are still happening. I mean, people are still fornicating, even if on our side of the internet, there's more abortions happening. So the... And more celibacy.

Involuntary, but the top guys are having more women. There, there's more involuntary celibacy, but you want to look at Charles Munger had a good line. Don't race trains or do cocaine, right? The, and the message, the sentiment of that was, if you're sending a young man on his path, you want to say, here are the big things that you don't want to do. You don't want to get a woman, the wrong woman, pregnant.

You're with her. If she doesn't have an abortion for 20, 25, you are tied now to that person, quantumly, cosmically and materially and physically for decades now. So you don't want to do that. That's a big problem. You don't want to do that.

You don't want to kill yourself. You don't want to drive your car drunk. You don't want to race cars. You don't want to race a train. Can I beat the train?

Right? You don't want to jump off cliffs off 50 feet into water. You don't know how deep it is, right? But as glib, and I don't mean to be glib, but that's how much belief I have in young men to know that, Hey, here's some guardrails. Figure it out, dude.

Just start reading books, go to the gym, because then what will happen? People are afraid to let things emerge organically. The male brain, and I've seen this with people I know who are incredibly successful, but no kids, because in their brain, they talk about everything that can go wrong. Oh, well, what if I get married to this woman? She divorces me.

And their brain spirals. They've created a thousand new problems. that one, you're going to have problems anyway, right? You're going to have problems anyway. Of course it's going to happen.

What if I start a business? I mean, yeah, you're going to have a payroll problem. At some point, you might have to get a line of credit. There are ways to do it. You're going to lose sleep because you might think you might go bankrupt and you might think people are going to make fun of you.

And you might feel like, why did I do this? Yes. All of this is going to happen. Who gives a fuck? It's like, you want to just shake these guys.

Maybe that's it. But it seems like young men are afraid they're too cautious. They have, like some sort of hormonal imbalance. It makes them more female, more, I don't know, less likely to take big risks. Yeah.

I can't save them. I tell them to go to.

You know, where I get attacked, smeared, called. every kind of name, got investigated by Mueller, know that I'm on the regime's target. What the fuck am I doing? This is stupid, right? I could just go live a nice, quiet life, disappear off the face of the earth, smoke cigars all day, hang out with my kids, go to the gym.

What am I doing? Why am I doing this? And the answer is because I'm writing for who I was when I was 19,, 20, 21.. Just tell me what to do, bro. Give me the playbook.

I'll figure it out. Give me the playbook. I'm not for the guy who, oh, I'm so depressed. The world is so rigged. I'm going to go watch anti-Semitic podcasts all day because the Jews, the Jews are holding me down.

You know, those are not my people. Those are lost souls. And it isn't my spiritual obligation to reach them. That's the obligation of the church. That's the obligations of pastors, because I'm not caring enough to reach them.

Right? I don't want to hear how you're a sad panda. You're just, right? I'm not the right person for you. There are people who are the right people for you.

Go walk into a church. Oh, I'm afraid I'll feel awkward. to go to church. It's like, well, what? Give me a break, dude.

At some point with these people, you wonder how we're enabling them by talking about all the systemic problems, which are real, but realizing, go to a church. That's why pastors exist, to nurture you, to kind of put you on the right direction, to deal with your fucking beta cock bullshit. But that's not for me. I'm not here to save your soul. That's the church.

The church is there to save your soul. I'm here to take someone who's maybe had kind of a fucked up home life, maybe has had a wrong turn in life, but they will do things, but they don't have the knowledge. Right? So I'm thinking, how can I give them knowledge? What do I wish somebody had told me?

What's the knowledge you need? What are the pitfalls that you want to avoid? Here you go. Here's a one-page piece of paper. Follow the instructions, and then you're not going to need me because you're the mentor.

You're the mentor. Your own mentor has appeared in your own mind. You are your mentor, right? That's the narrative structure. And then go on your hero's journey.

And in your hero's journey, you're going to have peril. Don't tell me, what if I marry this woman and she divorces me? Well, what if you don't marry her and you get in a car crash and you lose a leg? What are you doing? Worried around like a worry wart?

Go join a knitting circle, right? Go join a knitting society. Oh, I'm so... That's called chewing the fat, right? And it used to be kind of an insult, right?

You'd call somebody a bubble boy, or you're like, oh, they're just sitting around chewing the fat, like cows with cud in their mouth, right? And you're thinking, well, sure, all these things can happen. In business, I've lost sleep, thought we're going to go bankrupt, and I ruined my life. Do I have to cash in my retirement account to keep things going? Who gives a shit?

Of course, you're going to go through that, right? Of course. But then I know people who had great jobs that just got downsized one day, and then they had nothing, and now they have to rebuild their life at 50, right? You think having a business is hard. How about you rebuild your life bankrupt at 50, right?

That's hard.

But again, it all comes back to like, what are you going to do? Just sit around, mope around all day. And there's too much.

Do you think that.

. But there's a line, though, and it's hard to know exactly where it is, between sort of ignoring the systems that are oppressing you, which are real, and then feeling hopeless and whiny and self-pitying, because they're... You need to push back against injustice, but you can't allow the existence of injustice to.

There are problems that are real, but in the scheme of humanity and the length of humanity, we're not dealing with shit, bro. We're not dealing with anything, right? Oh, life is... So. are you in line for a soup kitchen, wondering if your kids are going to starve?

Do you have to sell a kid? In Cambodia, they can't feed their kids, right? We can take you to other parts of the world. And that isn't a way of excusing the excesses of the regime, because I fight the regime. I'm a target of the regime.

I've been smeared in every kind of publication, right?

But that doesn't mean I sit around all day thinking that I can't do anything. You still.

That's what the ego wants to do, validation and self-satisfaction. And you realize that these are broken people, and you're participating in the spiritual damage that was done to them, and you're spiritually damaging yourself. So it isn't, oh, this is sin, you're going to go to hell. God's going to strike you down with thunder. It's more, you're damaging yourself spiritually when you engage with this material.

And that person is even way more damaged. And now you're caught in this cycle of molestation and problems that these people have dealt with. So why in the world would you want to be downstream of that level of trauma, that cosmic trauma? Get the hell out of that.

. Look, I was encultured. We were all groomed.

Grooming is a big term now, and everybody blames it on drag queen story or whatever. I watched a documentary on Woodstock 99.. It was the redo of Woodstock. And there was a point in there, a subplot, and it was delivered by the documentary filmmaker, because I understand propaganda. I know when they're propagandizing, but they were right.

It was very much when you were of my era, Gen X, oh, girl's gone wild. Show us your tits. Oh, they're going to Mardi Gras. Everybody get drunk, show your tits. That's vulgar.

I look at that now as vulgar and disgusting, but that was completely normalized on us. Howard Sturman, do a radio show. Oh, Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, they're 14.. When do they turn 18?? Sexualizing a 14-year-old.

But it's like what David Foster Wallace said, does a fish know that it's in water? When you're in water, you don't know. you're in water. You know when you're out of the water. When you're in water, you don't know.

We were all swimming in a sewer, not realizing that we are being groomed to fornicate, to sexualize people who are way too young to be sexualized, and that was all being groomed on us. So then it just becomes like a normal thing. Oh, yeah, girl's gone wild. Oh, yeah, girl gets drunk, shows her tits. That's probably the lowest point of her life, doing that when the videos come in and she's sober.

But if you don't have a higher awareness, you're just another participant in the bacchanal carnival of degeneracy. But you don't realize it because you're swimming in that filth. And then, as I've tried to get out of that sewer, and as I work more and more to sanctify and purify my heart, you realize, oh, God, how could I watch this? So for me, it didn't even take willpower to not watch it. I just said, how could I watch that?

My heart says, you can't watch this. I'm just like, okay. So five, six, seven years ago, whatever, I was like, I can't watch this anymore. And that was it. It wasn't a struggle.

It wasn't hard. And that's where, you know, we talked earlier about the difference between the heart and the mind and relearning that the heart is its own form of consciousness, its own form of intelligence. The more you live in your heart, the less willpower it takes. It doesn't take willpower to refuse to participate in cycles of trauma when your heart is talking, because your heart would say, what are we doing? But if it's your mind, you think, oh, man, I got a few minutes to blow off.

I'm kind of bored. I'll let you see what's new. And then, of course, it's been proven that when they watch pornography, you watch worse and worse stuff. You don't start with the National Geographic topless pics of the tribes, you know, and then you end there. You start there and you end at just really sketchy stuff, right?

And so that tells you right there that it's demonic, because if it were satiating, if pornography were satiating, you would say, oh, okay, here's a 70s era bad movie. Oh, she comes in and she's pretty. And there was a certain least elegance or art to it. You would be fine ending there. How many people end there?

It's a gateway that keeps corrupting the soul. Well, so I'm interested in what you said that.

Do you think people are becoming more spiritually aware in the United States?

have.

. That never called to me. That was never where I said, okay, I believe in God, and this is the truth, but I go, oh, the evil is so overt. Obviously, I've been blinded spiritually for some reason. So obviously, there's something else going on here.

that isn't really good.

S. Lewis and all the Christian apologetics say, which is that he gave us free will and the table was cast, but on the timeline of God, what might seem like insurmountable suffering to us is completely different. So we don't really know on this world what it means. We could say, well, for example, one of the big perplexing problems is the problem of evil, right? The problem of evil, right?

And I would say, having ventured through the spirit world, is that to us it's a problem we should talk about philosophically, but on the spiritual realm, the timeline is so different that the way it would even out by God is incomprehensible to our minds. So what we think is, why does God allow evil? You say, well, because God's on the infinite timeline, and what we perceive. evil is over in a flash, and that there's a sanctification process and people rejoin God. So we're fighting over this only because we don't understand the spirit world, and we don't understand the infinite timelines at play.

So because of that, what we're kind of fussing over is philosophically distracting us from ourselves. So, rather than get into the apologetics, why does God allow evil? And it's because free will, we're still in mind, right? We're still in mind. And in heart, you say, what am I doing to sanctify my heart?

Is my heart full of lust, pride, evilness? Did I lose my temper today, right? Am I getting greedy? Am I trying to take advantage in a business deal, right? What am I doing to sanctify my heart?

So a lot of these intellectual discussions, which are valuable to have, and I've read all the books, it's still a distraction. It's the ego's way of distracting from the heart. So everything about this whole mindfuck world is the ego keeping you away from your heart. So what I try to focus on as much is reawakening the mind, the full consciousness of the human.

What do I say? Well, there's books, you know? Can you repeat that? Yeah, it's Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. And the reason that that has a certain impact on people is because it's a reminder that you do need divine mercy.

It's a reminder of your ego thinking. you're such hot shit and you're so important and you're so great. You're such a great man of history, right? You're so important, right? Because me, I struggle with pride.

Everybody has a difference and they struggle with. I don't struggle with sloth, I'm ambitious, right? But then the flip side of that is pride, so I struggle with pride. So then you're reminding yourself, I need the divine mercy of God. I need the divine mercy of Christ.

And having, again, seen it through the veil, you realize how inconsequential our troubles are. So for me, I do that all the time. And especially before bed, I'm just reminding myself, okay, have mercy on me, a sinner. And not in a judgmental way, but just, you know, what have I done? And then, as you do that, you get more reps in, you can catch yourself more.

Because it's all about catching yourself early on, right? Like your kid gets mad and the kids are bickering and they're fighting and you're about to like lose it. What the fuck, you know, why are my kids fighting? or whatever? It helps ground you, right?

Helps remind you, you need mercy in this moment because you're weak. Otherwise you wouldn't care. your kids are bickering. Kids are kids. They bicker.

Who gives a shit, right? Well, I care, because my ego tells me that there should be more order, or they're disturbing my train of thought or whatever, whatever bullshit my ego has got me wrapped up in. So then you remind myself, no, I mean, I do need mercy, because what a pathetic creature. I am, losing my temper because kids are bickering, because kids are being kids, right? Like, wow, I'm pathetic, actually.

I think I'm so great, but this is pathetic. What a pitiful human being. you are, right? But you're reminding yourself, that's why you need the divine grace and divine love.

I mean, it's like overtly hostile to children. How, how do you, how do you do that? How do you raise children right now? Thoughtfully to become the kind of?

the world is hostile to kids. I think that that wave has passed, but that's still within the media, the media world, the DC world. What I'm seeing now is a resurgence of very involved dads and very involved parents. And there's probably a split where a lot of kids are getting left behind, but I would say I'm seeing way more parents who, who are like way, way more involved in parenting than my parents were, probably than yours.

are what we went through too and didn't realize it. Britney Spears on the TV.

I was groomed. Everybody raised on, girls gone wild was groomed. Everybody raised on show me your tits, a song, you and me, baby, ain't nothing but animals. Let's do it like they do on the discovery channel. Very popular song.

when I was in high school, realizing the music was programming you for fornication, for violence, for drugs. We were groomed as bad or worse than the kids were. now. It's just, it finally resonated to us in a way that clicks our constructs on. maybe what, what's too far, but we were groomed terribly.

We just didn't realize it.

We, anybody who tells your kids, anybody who tells you don't shelter your kids, groomer, shelter your kids. Why do you, why, why are you telling me not to shelter my kids?

And everybody's really concerned about peer groups. For us, the bigger wars are over screen time and how, how much should kids be allowed to watch TV devices, especially handheld devices, which you try to limit, but then you're on a flight and you give the kid iPad. So those are the bigger struggles. What's unfortunate is that the trans mania is primarily hitting the poor people, right? The people who don't have a lot of time, who are very tired, who are very stressed, and they kind of raise their kids on default.

Right? So if you imagine that it takes a certain amount of leisure time to be politically informed, right? Aristotle even said, you shouldn't be involved in politics until you're 35 because you, by that point, maybe you have some leisure time, but before that you need to live your life and have some kind of achievement. Right? So if you're, if you're an intact family, which is becoming more rare, dad and mom both work, they come home tired, processed food diet, because we've transitioned away from where when I grew up, we call it.

people find it offensive. Now I didn't find it offensive, but you call it peasant food or poverty food. We ate beans, ham hocks and beans, right? Chicken and dumplings. You would eat things that were cooked.

You would often cook at home. Even if you're poor, you could afford to cook. And now everybody's raised on processed foods, and that's having a lot of problems with. some people claim seed oils are the problem, but whatever the case is, we know that there's a problem with diet. That's how a lot of health effects, right?

So you eat or you wake up, you get wound up on a donut coffee, you work a little bit, monster energy, drink, a lunch of processed food. By the time you get home, you're exhausted, right? And there's your kids, and you entrusted your kids to the school. And you don't have all the time in the world to, to figure out best parenting practices, right? You're beat down, man.

You're just trying to make it. You're trying to keep your head above water. So the tragedy is that, and it is hitting the rich kids too, because I do have a side point on that. The tragedy is that this really was hitting the poor kids first. So if you go in through- The training stuff.

Yeah. If you go through any small town, I saw the gender bending stuff happening in all these small towns on any kind of small town road trip. And then it percolated up to elite opinion, and then so did the opioids. So remember Susan, the CEO of YouTube, who banned conservatives, her kid died of overdose, opioids. And her world, because she banned people like me and censored people like me who were anti.

that, the people, the forces that were working against those compounds, in their mind, oh, it can't happen to me. We're the elite. No, you're not, dude. And she, I always wonder if she has self-awareness, like what she feels at night, in a moment of self-awareness, realizing that she created the culture to kill their son. If we're being completely honest, and I don't mind saying that, this is the truth.

She created that culture of the open borders, the drugs coming in, block. everybody who's against the open borders, call people who are anti-drug kooks, oh, reefer, madness, bro. All of that degeneracy has hit the elite now. So they thought this was going to be something to happen to poor white trash, to use their terms, not mine. Oh, whatever.

Who cares about them? And now they're realizing they're not immune too. Their kids are gender bending. now. Their kids are on opioids.

now. Their kids are doing OnlyFans. Their kids are addicted to pornography. Their boys are having problems launching and becoming active participants in society. They're dealing with the problems too, right?

So that is the predicament, but that also might be why there is some kind of hope, because people are realizing it's their own interest to get things together. Although, unfortunately, the ideologues of the left were willing to let communism flourish everywhere and seem to be okay with that. So maybe not, but us on the individual level, the parent level, you want to, we listen to parenting podcasts. We're always looking for parenting tips. It's just same like, if you want to get in shape, you listen to gym podcasts, right?

Because you're cultivating the habit of the mind on what matters most, which is your kids. So it's always about staying in tune with the trends and being mindful of how you're raising them. Fundamentally, you're protecting your children from this horrible secular world.

What do you do at school? We do homeschool. We take them to a homeschool. So homeschool now is a beautiful, there's a revolution thanks to, ironically enough, COVID. So COVID, the only reason we're having these conversations is because of the COVID lockdowns, which shows that good can emerge from evil.

If the COVID lockdowns hadn't happened, nobody would know anything about these schools, right? People don't think about that. People go, oh, the lockdowns destroyed the country. The lockdowns harmed the country in many ways, but we would not have known any of these problems were happening at school if people didn't have Zoom school, right? So Zoom school happens, people start paying attention, and then they're pulling their kids out of school.

There's more.

they call them, homeschool pod. How does it work? You pull money together and you hire teachers. So let's say, your kids were in school. There's teachers who want out of the public school system.

And you have three to five friends, and you say, well, why don't we just hire the teacher?

Anyway, homeschooling was always self-directed, teaching kids how to teach themselves, and then helping them coach them along through the material as they struggle with it. But kids are generally naturally curious and will figure things out in their own way, but you're providing them enough structure to make sure that they just.

Yeah, there was a structure created, and we pay tuition, we pay whatever fees, and then there's a non-profit attached to it. So we donated to the non-profit. Remember, Elon Musk got in trouble because they said he gave all this money to a non-profit, but the non-profit teaches his kids. You're like, well, they teach other kids too, but isn't that where you would want to donate your money? Right.

If I'm going to donate to a non-profit, wouldn't I want to donate it to a homeschool-supported charity, right? So yeah, our kids do a part-time schedule.

Because again, homeschooling isn't what people think. We're still voluntarily tracked by the state. So the state has somebody check in with my wife, they interview the kids, and then my kids will take the standardized tests to make sure that they're on path with the curriculum, which we're fine with. If school were school, we'd send our kids to public school. If school were, hey, here's your course material, here's how you take it.

We'd still homeschool, honestly, because that's just the way I am. But we don't have a problem with the testing and everything, it's the ideology. So we're on track. Our kids take the tests that a normal kid would take. And then they talk to a.

liaison, who's in teaching, and she's a wonderful person and is very helpful. And they just check in with the kids, make sure the kids are okay, which I'm fine with that too. Is there any downside to this?

I mean, it's all upside. You never want to say there's no downside, because that means you're high on your own supply, right? Right. But they socialize with other kids. They're with kids of all age groups.

that way. Remember, we would go to school, you're in a class, and you're with people, only your own age. And when children talk to people of other ages, they become more advanced with their communication. Yes, that is totally true. So people often think that my oldest daughter is older than she is.

No, no, she just spends a lot of time talking to adults and talking to eighth graders and seventh graders and sixth graders and fifth graders. And it's all kid appropriate. because the model of the co-op, or they probably don't even call it a homeschool co-op, they call it probably something else. It's probably a different terminology, but it's Waldorf-based, it's nature-based. It's based on the wonder and magic of childhood.

You go in, it's very much about storytelling and participating with nature. And that's the one that they go to. I have friends who they set up one, and it's more tech-based. There are a lot of tech guys who want their kids coding, which I don't think a five-year-old needs to learn to code. Right.

Plus the coding language, who knows what it will even be. Well, with AI, no one needs to learn to code. With 10 years. Anyway, right. But there are people who are trying to find solutions.

But the flip side is, a lot of parents do want the daycare aspect. So homeschooling, if you don't like your kids, then homeschooling is a huge downside.

If you don't like your kids, just send them to public school. I mean, that's not... Yeah. If you don't like your kids, you shawl them off,

. Yeah. Or just send them to Sidwell in DC or something like that.

And now people are like, oh, I mean, I don't.

. He's probably delusional or whatever, but it's like in the conversation, which the Overton window on that has shifted. So there's a lot of good energy being put out, too. There's never been a better time. In my opinion, this is why I don't like the despair for men.

When I was a kid, you couldn't just learn things. You were in a school, and then whatever your parents taught you is kind of what you learned. If you're 17,, 18, and you want to learn how to start an internet website e-commerce business, you might not have anything to sell, but you can do that. You can literally learn anything that you would need to know to survive. I didn't know anything about money.

I almost went bankrupt at one point because I just didn't understand money. I didn't understand about credit or paying bills on time or how any of this stuff worked. I just didn't know.

Maybe you're the oddball and leave. That didn't happen. We're not getting drafted for the Vietnam War. We like to bash the boomers a little bit, and I enjoy that too from time to time. But they were drafted in a war and sent to Vietnam.

I don't know if anybody's ever been caving in Vietnam, but try to walk through a cave as a six foot tall man. And imagine that that's what we did. You graduated high school and you were in Vietnam, bro. Unless you were Bill Crystal or somebody, or Mitt Romney. Then, of course, you were a fortunate son.

Oh, did Bill Crystal not serve in Vietnam? The last I checked, he didn't. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Mitt Romney, yeah.

Last I checked, they weren't in Vietnam either.

Yeah. So if you look at the problems, they're real. But if you look at the problems in a historical context, I would rather live now than in the draft era of the Vietnam War. Wouldn't you? Yeah.

There were civil rights riots in the 60s. Detroit is burning, right? That was happening in the 60s. The crime wave in New York in the 70s. We've always kind of had these problems.

So it's good to get over our own myopia and say, oh, it's just, this is a human condition, man. This is a human struggle. We're always going to have it. You never win. You never lose.

because even if you think you win, you can have it all taken away. You can drive out. I've made it in life. You can drive out, hit a moose, lose a leg, lose both legs, die. Your kids could get died in a crash.

It's never over, right? But in our human brains, with the ego, we either go to I'm a winner and I'm in a static place of winning, or I'm a loser. Everything is so bad in society, and this is where I am. So, in your own mind, what you want to do is break that narrative arc and realize that you're not a winner. You're not a loser.

You're at a given point in time, and anything could change for the better or the worse in a moment. So do the best you can right now, while you're here, and keep pushing forward. Amen. So the last thing.

And when are the rest of us going to get all the details on this?

With him giving a break on it, we thought it'd cost 10 or 20.

Because if you're looking at it through the structure of the way the law is, you would say, there's no such thing as an easy win in law, but to the extent that there's an easy win, this is low hanging fruit. Let's just go ahead and get these files redacted. It won't take that much time or money. Oh, the opposite. The judge ruled against us after sitting on the case for a long time on privacy grounds.

There was no.

. Again, that's not how the law works. Law isn't that you have the right to privacy in public litigation. You don't. You give up the right to privacy in public litigation.

That shouldn't have happened. We think, oh God, this is more than we realized. We go, I guess we got to appeal it. Then we file an appeal in the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. Meanwhile, the money is just...

I realized again, in hindsight, I was like, wow, you were naive. You thought there was just going to be some easy win, but I didn't really know what I was getting at. It's like pulling a tiger by the tail. You're on a little hike and you see something sticking out and you kind of grab it. The next thing you know, it's a Bengal tiger in your face, and you think, I didn't know that.

that's what I was grabbing at. In my own naivety, I didn't realize what the whole Epstein situation was. It was going to be a real... He was still alive at this point. He was still alive.

He wasn't been arrested. This is, as last night you said, I told a lot of stories. you didn't believe. This is another impossible... No, no, no.

I just need to believe it. You're unbelievable. You were telling.

It's like a Forrest Gump thing. How do I get involved with Jeffrey Epstein? Just some random guy on the internet and Twitter. How bizarre. So me and Mark Rondazza was the lawyer.

So Mark Rondazza said, hey, why don't we just get these unsealed? You're always talking about pedophile stuff. This is such an easy win for you. And he goes, and the case is interesting to me, so I'll cut you a break on fees. We both thought going in that it was going to be something that you could get done for a reasonable amount of money and a reasonable amount of time.

And it took years. So we filed a suit and the motion to unseal. And then the judge rules against us. We appealed the second circuit court appeals in New York. And then this is during the Trump administration.

Epstein is still free. He hasn't been arrested. A friend of mine, one of the good guys in the intelligence community, said, hey, just so you know, you shouldn't mention Epstein anymore. You're in a real problem. They go, you got into something really that you didn't know what you were getting into.

And I go, okay, what do you want to do? They go, just stand by. You're in court. That'll work its way through, but you need to not draw attention to this issue or yourself. And I said, okay, that's message received.

And this is someone in the-. Well, this is credible. Yeah. This is a real- In the intel world. Yeah.

This isn't some guy who reads me on Twitter worried about me after a divine vision. Yeah. This is a real thing. And so I didn't talk about it for about a year. And then what happened is the Julie Brown filed the same motion to unseal that I had filed and piggybacked on me.

And then that's what started to break up the Epstein thing. So then my guy in the intelligence world said, okay, you're green light now. They're not going to kill Julie Brown and the Miami Herald. Everybody's going to talk about it. So let the chips fall where they may.

So then I reentered the discourse on it, because you can't kill everybody, how they say, right? Yeah. You can kill one guy. You can have one guy get in a car crash, but you're not going to go after the Miami Herald or other people. Now, what is very sad to me about the Epstein story is if you look at the timeline and you look at the why Epstein became relevant again, and this isn't Julie Brown.

Julie Brown, to her credit, had the right motives, but Jake Tapper and others didn't. A man by the name of Alexander Acosta was a secretary of labor of Donald Trump. So you now have a orange man. bad angle, because Alexander Acosta was the prosecuting attorney who oversaw the original plea agreement with Jeffrey Epstein, which could only be defined as a sweetheart plea deal, defying any kind of logic. And the media now had Trump.

bad because Acosta's Trump, Epstein, Trump, the Trump, Epstein angle, right? Now the media suddenly cared, or pretended to care, about the issue because they could use the Epstein issue to get after Trump. So then every media outlet wanted access to the Epstein files because they were hoping there was a Trump angle too. So then suddenly it became a big deal. So we go up before the second circuit court of appeals, Mark Mendoza and Jay Woolman argue the case.

And by now the meter's like turning, man. I'm like stressing, dude. And you're paying for this. They gave me a break on fees, but they would normally charge anybody else. that would have been a million dollar legal fee plus.

But we had, some of us pro bono, but I was still paying. Oh yeah. I was still sending big checks. Just because you thought it was interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. And well, and I didn't know it was, if I didn't know how big it was going to be, I might've had second thoughts, but the, cause they did me good on it. I don't want to make it seem like a complaining. This is the nature of the American legal system. Cause that's why people go, oh, why don't you see that person?

They said something about you. It's like, I don't know. Why don't I write a check for $3.5 million to litigate a defamation case against somebody because they called me something on the internet? People don't understand that until they're in that world and they realize how much all of this stuff costs. So Miami Herald probably spent 2 million on fees.

And so they argue the case. The second circuit made it abundantly clear that they were going to unseal the files because there was no way in the world under established law that the file should have been sealed in the first place. And oral argument happens. It's so clear that they're going to unseal it. I think oral argument happens on Friday and I'm like, all right, this is good.

Two days later, Epstein gets arrested flying back from France. The only reason he was arrested was because the files are going to be unsealed. Because he was told he was not going to be arrested. Right. The mop-up operation had worked, but for me and more importantly, but for Julie Brown, because I think if it had just been me, they could have just buried the case long enough.

They could have issued an unpublished opinion that wouldn't have precedental value, because.

the way it works is a trial court judge is more likely to make up the law against you than an appellate court, because an appellate court will have precedential value and apply in other cases. So the trial court could have just, they gave me a fake ruling, because who cares, it's Mike Cernovich. And then the second circuit could have moved it to a shadow docket and ruled against me. But once Julie Brown entered the case, you can't ignore the Miami Herald. Right.

I think I'm a big deal, but compared to Miami Herald, I don't have any legitimacy at all. Right. And then every other outlet got involved too. So then the regime realized, well, the Epstein stuff is coming out. We better look like we're doing something.

And then so Jeffrey Epstein was arrested a couple of days after oral argument, because they realized we have a mess. Now, what do we do? So then Epstein gets arrested. and then, do you want me to keep going? Am I boring you?

I'm actually spellbound. So to channel Dr. Gene Scott, get on the telephones, get on the phones. So then.

they charged Epstein, but a little bit of like legal trivia. I went there for the press conference. I read the indictment and the indictment was what you would charge someone if you wanted to create a media narrative that you were prosecuting them, but that under the law would be chicken shit stuff. The lowest thing that you could possibly charge him for, but you could say we're going after him. There's a reason.

they did it this way. They charged him for paying for massages in his New York apartment through, I think, the period of 2014 to 2016,, somewhere in that timeline, massages in his apartment. That's all they charged him for, the four corners of the indictment. So why did they only charge him for that? There's a reason.

He had a place in New Mexico. He had his island. He had his place in Paris. He had another place, I think, in West Palm Beach. And if they had charged him for trafficking, the FBI would have had to simultaneously raid every property under a Mann Act.

The Mann Act makes it a crime to transport a woman. State lines. Yep. And international too. So he was flying back from Paris and he was flying women, models all over the world, models, not to diminish what he's doing, but that was his story.

He was flying underage girls and some of age all around the world. Well, what you would do with the SDNY, which, as we know, the SDNY, they go after you, you got problems because they charge the most aggressive. They're too aggressive, in fact, in how they charge cases. What you would have charged it if you were concerned with being a prosecutor, you would have charged him under the Mann Act and under the international version of the Mann Act, you would have simultaneously searched and seized every property, taken all the evidence. Instead, they arrested him, had a little press conference.

It was over massages in New York property. They searched the New York property. What was happening in the island? We don't know. What happened to the island?

We don't know. Because the FBI said, well, we can't search it because nothing that he was charged with concerned, because of course the FBI is very concerned now with due process. We don't want to go overstep our lawful authority, so we can't go raid that island. They left all these properties unattended and then that's when the mop-up operation commenced and they got whatever compromising CEDs and DVRs and other information. They got that from the intelligence community, got that from all the properties.

Or designated, trusted intermediaries would. So, rather than say, well, Bill Barr is lying, I like to just say, okay, buddy. And by the way, that's a trait of lawyering. A lot of police detectives use that too, is I'll follow along with your bullshit and then I'll just start pulling the threads a little bit. So yeah, it would have been Bill Barr.

And so Epstein gets charged with the lowest possible conduct that he ever could have been charged with. And all their properties were left unattended. Some mop-up teams went in there, took whatever they needed to take out there. And then Epstein commits suicide. It's the end of the story.

What's to talk about? All gone now. All in a nice, it's like the ending of The Usual Suspects. It's like he never existed.

And they'll release it if they need to, but everybody's playing ball. You find out that Bill Gates was there often. Where are the videos? Where's the proof? You'll never see that, but Bill Gates will go along with the agenda.

Bill Clinton, he'll go along with the agenda. Reid Hoffman, he's a very vicious person, going after people. And the media gives him a pass, even though he was with Epstein. Here's what I love about cancel culture, why it's not sincere. I would support the universal enforcement of cancel culture rules.

So if the rule was, you did a bad thing in your life and you're kind of beyond the norm, beyond the pale, and you're not allowed into acceptable society, if that were universally applied, that would mean Bill Gates is not anywhere, right? Bill Clinton would be canceled. Bill Clinton, there's all this witness testimony about Bill Clinton. Reid Hoffman would be canceled. But it's interesting that if you post a bad tweet or a bad video clip out of context, or chopped up, or even a deep fake, or even somebody makes it up, now.

you're toxic. You're toxic waste. But everybody gets to hang around Epstein, and they can still speak at the DNC, and they're held up as the media and propped up. So clearly the media was in on the Epstein stuff, because otherwise you would hound Bill Gates to his dying days. Bill Gates would never get on stage without you asking about Jeffrey Epstein.

That's for sure. Because they make up stuff to sue people over. anyway. I think he funded the suit against Trump. Yeah, he's funding all the lawfare against people and trying to take people out one by one.

And if we had a legitimate media, you would hound him every time. I mean, how many times did people, when you were on Fox, your staffers would get hounded for a random post they would make on Twitter? Oh, yeah. They tried to destroy their lives. Yeah.

You're trying to go after some staffer over a post that was maybe poorly worded or didn't have sufficient nuance on a platform that doesn't allow for it, didn't allow for, at the time, sufficient nuance. But you're like, oh, yeah, we're cool with all these other people, though. They're the good guys. And that shows you that we don't have a media. We have propaganda outlets for the intelligence community.

And they've been given their marching orders on who's allowed in the discourse and who's allowed to be propped up and who's allowed to get away with things that they got away with. And then all of Epstein's associates, they're fine. Nobody got damaged. How many people's reputations were sullied? I would give an example of.

compare what's been done to somebody like Peter Bremelow or Jared Taylor, who I obviously don't agree with a lot of their stuff, but you have to add those qualifiers, unfortunately. But compare them to people who palled around with Epstein.

So if you're in a world where you say something offensive, maybe unintentionally, you're done, at least in terms of how they can't define the discourse in the way they once did. But you're sullied forever. You have a scarlet letter on you forever, and you have to learn to accept that and overcome it. But there's a ceiling on you, for sure. But you can be a friend with Epstein, because the media and the intelligence communities are all working together, so they'll make sure that your life isn't made too difficult for what you did.

But do you think that the U.

S. government is working aggressively to spread disinformation within opposition media? Do you think there are lots of feds?

There was a book called Intel Pro. You can read the CIA manual on how you disrupt movements, which I read. What they would do, the CIA would do, at the time they were doing it to Black Panthers, but now they're doing it to anybody who's deemed Christian or goes to a Catholic church, is, they have various tactics. One tactic they do is they call it stone... What do you call it when you keep talking?

Filibustering. You have a group and you have two different agents put in. One is going to try to fed trap you, like they did in Michigan. Oh, we need to do more than just talk. We've talked for too long.

It's time to take action. And then that only works on the really desperate people who don't have anything going on, which happened post 9-11 to Muslim kids, if we're being fully honest here. This isn't a new thing happening to us, and woe is us. It was happening to Muslims and a lot of conservatives didn't really care. Oh, that's true.

The FBI stopped another terrorist attack. No, they didn't. They found some poor Muslim kid who was lonely, maybe mildly autistic, and they planned a whole thing.

filibuster and make it so that nothing can really get done. So the more elegant way to disrupt a political movement isn't to fed trap people, it's to run off the clock. So I think, for example, the Q thing, trust the plan, I believe that was intelligence operation done. The reason I think that is because, if you go back to 2018, the entire narrative being spread to MAGA world was, there's going to be a massive red wave in 2018.. We are going to overtake Congress and Trump is going to accomplish all these things.

And millions of people, maybe tens of millions of people, believed it. Well, what happens when you believe that everything is going to be okay and it's being worked on? Well, you don't push, you don't press your guys, you don't register voters, you don't turn out to vote, you don't do all that boring grinding. Because, in your mind, trust the plan, it's all being taken care of. It might look like President Trump is getting rolled by the deep state, but he's really not.

This is a feint. And what really is going to happen is all these mass arrests are going to happen. So I believe, I have no direct evidence of this, but my personal belief, and I think it's a rational one, based on the very manuals that the FBI and CIA wrote was, I believe that the entire QAnon movement was made by the intelligence.

I have friends who think that, I have friends who believe that the debate was orchestrated by the deep state or Biden's handlers. And that's why it ended up the way it did. I don't believe that. And here's why. My belief is that CNN wanted to create a narrative where Trump dodged the debate with Biden.

So they kept imposing more and more onerous terms on Trump. So me, and this is why Trump, I have a lot to say about Trump and the way he handled things. And I have a lot of problems with Trump. But I will say that only Trump is Trump. So nobody but Trump would have taken that CNN interview.

Because Trump's magic power, but also his Greek fatal flaw, right? The Greeks would always say your greatest strength is killing. Is he's so obsessed with mainstream media that he'll interview these people and talk to them all day, even though they hate him and he gives them ratings. Meanwhile, when he was president, I said, why don't you just talk to the Daily Caller every day? Give them everything.

And then everybody has to watch the Daily Caller or give it to Breitbart? or why don't you build the conservative media ecosystem? No, because he's a boomer and he's obsessed with prestige media, or what I would call regime media, regime propaganda. So anybody else goes, I'm not walking into a CNN ambush. The terms of this are stupid.

Then the narrative will be Trump won't debate Biden. And that's a good narrative to run with. But instead, Trump said, oh, you're going to turn off my microphone? Sure. Oh, you're going to make me do this?

Okay, sure.

Oh, you're going to make me do this? And so the terms led to the debate having to happen, even though it was a setup. And then Biden shows up. We've known for a while he's been sundowning and they had it at night. They should have had it during the day.

That was their fault. There was really nothing they could do. They gave him seven days of rest. They gave him a drug cocktail, but they had to show up. They couldn't have him not show up.

And they were hoping maybe he'd have a good night. Because, as you know, people with dementia, sometimes they have a good night. That's right. Sometimes they have a medium night. Biden had a terrible night.

But that's the gamble you got to run. So one reason you never despair is the enemy gets a vote. And in this case, Trump was the enemy. to the regime. Trump said, okay, sure, I'll show up to your rig thing because I love the media anyway.

And Trump already preceded a narrative in Magarworld to explain any failures. The whole thing was rigged anyway. So the narrative was already set that if Trump had a bad night, it was because the debate terms were so unconscionable that he never should have did it, but he did it anyway. So he goes in there, presses the advantage. Biden had a bad night, an unusually bad night, probably.

And I don't think we need to, because I don't view the deep state of regime as omniscient. I view them as evil, bad faith actors, but that are actually less smart than we are. And they're less robust. Because for people like us, we've been through the crucible so many times, and we know we're going to be in the crucible again. We conduct ourselves a little bit differently than they do.

It's like you have to remember your speeches in high school, Julius Caesar. And one of the speeches I had to memorize in high school was, let me have men about me that are fat, sleek-headed men and one that sleeps at night. Jan Cassius has a lean and hungry. look. You don't want the lean and hungry.

look people around you, right? We're the lean and hungry people. We're the people that we know. that one misstep, we're in court, dude. We know that the regime will frame us for crimes.

So not only are we not doing ethically questionable behavior, because, boy, then we'd really be given on our neck. That's for sure. We know these motherfuckers are going to frame us anyway. So we're already like, oh my God, I wonder whether they're going to make up about me. Shit.

Whereas all the fat people, the spiritually fat people, are so weak and debased because they're the ones cooking everything up that they don't know where their weak sides are. So in their fat world, they're thinking, we'll just put Biden up there. Maybe he has a good night and we luck out. If it's a bad night, we'll be okay. But they didn't realize how bad it could be.

Whereas if someone like you worked for Biden, because that's also the danger of these people. They don't have any counter narrative. So if they had somebody like you there and me there, we'd have been saying,

maybe this isn't a good idea. Because the problem of the right is we self-police too much. We should self-police maybe a little bit less. The problem of the left is they police away any kind of opposition view and they allow every crazy in the tent. So for us, we know who the crazies are and we know who the feds are, and we know to think in those terms.

Whereas if you're on the left, nobody's crazy. Oh, Ilhan Omar, she's great. Oh, what was she doing about October 7th? What she's saying? Wait, Rashida Tlaib.

No, no, no, no, no. Guys, you're not. No, no, no, no, no. Pretend. At least pretend for one day to care.

Oh, my. Oh, now we have a real problem. Whereas with us, we're used to having to police ourselves and the people around us. So we maybe don't walk into the traps or unforced errors that that Biden debate was. So that's a very long way of saying, I don't think the regime's omniscient.

I don't think that that was a move to take him out. I think that that was pure human groupthink and action. And they thought that they could get Trump to not take.

Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library, tuckercarlson.com.