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America This Week, June 7, 2024: “America’s Grand Inquisitor”

2024-06-07 00:30:30

Welcome to America This Week, with Matt Taibbi and Walter Kirn, the national news wrap-up so true, we recommend you stow all sharp objects before reading. <br/><br/><a href="https://www.racket.news/s/america-this-week?utm_medium=podcast">www.racket.news</a>

2
Speaker 2
[00:03.72 - 00:06.26]

Okay, welcome to America This Week, I'm Matt Taibbi.

1
Speaker 1
[00:06.56 - 00:07.70]

And I'm Walter Kern.

2
Speaker 2
[00:08.18 - 00:11.80]

Walter, how are you doing? Where are you? That's always the first question.

1
Speaker 1
[00:12.54 - 00:26.46]

And it's hard to tell. Sometimes I don't know, but I do know. this week I am in Montana, Livingston, Montana, the only town I know whose farmer's market includes a grizzly bear awareness stall.

[00:28.50 - 01:18.44]

Yesterday, I was at the farmer's market down in the Sacagawea Park, named after the native guide for the Lewis and Clark expedition, and there were a couple of nice young park rangers manning a stall among the fruits and vegetables. And on the table were the skulls of four different kinds of bears, so that kids can come and operate the jaws of the bears. The largest was a Kodiak, an Alaskan version of a grizzly bear, then a grizzly. And there were pamphlets about how to survive bear attacks and how to walk together in groups and make noise and things like that.

2
Speaker 2
[01:19.44 - 01:22.04]

Do you have bears in your town?

1
Speaker 1
[01:22.90 - 01:56.42]

Not in the town. Well, no, there are black bears that walk through the town, but as yet there are no grizzly bears. But out, I have a cabin outside of town that you'll have to visit someday with your kids and your wife so that you can experience, because I know you have bears where you live, but so you can experience the big Montana bears that walk through knowing that you are food and that you know your food, and they have the confidence of the apex predator is.

2
Speaker 2
[01:56.42 - 02:02.64]

what they call it. Yeah. They're hilarious. I think bears are, the funniness on bears is underrated.

1
Speaker 1
[02:03.06 - 02:08.92]

It really is. I mean, Russians have specialized in bear humor for a long time.

[02:10.48 - 02:40.38]

Americans are a little less versed in bears. But out at this place, my dad, who had retired there and died a few years ago, loved having grizzly bears around. And as he was getting older, one time, a friend of his came to me and said, well, your dad's letting a mountain lion live under the porch of his house and we think it's dangerous. Could you please talk to him? You know, he was in his early eighties.

[02:40.38 - 03:04.78]

And I went in and I drove out, it's about 20 miles out of town, I said, dad, apparently there's a mountain lion living under your porch, the neighbors are concerned. They don't think it's, you know, maybe healthy for you to have, you know, a killer of people and dogs living at your house. And he's like, God damn it. Tell them to leave me alone.

[03:07.18 - 03:10.74]

So you can see where I got my attitude about a lot of things.

2
Speaker 2
[03:11.12 - 03:16.12]

Um, but that's going to be a good comeback to our story later. Yeah.

[03:17.86 - 03:18.34]

Yeah.

1
Speaker 1
[03:18.68 - 03:28.64]

But anyway, so I'm glad to be back here. I'm glad to be among animals that wish me the worst, keeps me on my toes, puts things in perspective.

2
Speaker 2
[03:29.72 - 03:41.48]

Um, they're mostly indifferent, I think. Right. But if you were to run at one, clang, a bunch of pots, I would think they would wish you the worst. They are mostly. Oh, you mean the people?

1
Speaker 1
[03:42.34 - 04:00.90]

Well, no, no. I'm saying I'm glad to be back among animals that want me to die. They don't want to kill me necessarily today. They don't have, you know, a need to eat my body today, but they might at some point. But yeah, it keeps you, it keeps you in the pyramid.

[04:01.28 - 04:10.80]

Uh, not at the top of the pyramid, in the middle of it, where I think all people should absolutely see themselves to keep things in context.

2
Speaker 2
[04:11.10 - 04:29.62]

Yeah. I think, I think people should naturally live in an environment always where they're somewhere beneath the top of the food chain. Right. I think that's helpful. Um, yeah, we, we, we saw a bear just the other day, so, uh, what was it doing as walking back to the forest?

[04:29.62 - 04:42.06]

Yes. They come down here to, to, on a garbage pickup day, they scrounge and then they go back to where they live. And I've got a pretty good read on where they're heading now. So I'm, I'm thinking about going out and taking a look.

1
Speaker 1
[04:42.34 - 04:50.46]

So that's the investigative reporter in you. Where are you? I see a bear, but where is it going and what does it want?

2
Speaker 2
[04:52.88 - 05:18.76]

Exactly. Exactly. Um, so big week in news, uh, we obviously had a, a little criminal trial, uh, take place last week. Um, while I was in Toronto, uh, where I went to the Rogers center to watch the blue Jays win a game with a walk off home run, which was cool. Um, but, uh, the world kind of went nuts when Donald Trump got convicted.

[05:18.76 - 05:38.50]

Um, and we, we both picked this wrong. We both called it completely wrong. And I, and in hindsight, I'm, I'm kind of wondering what we were thinking. Uh, I mean, look at the, the New York times headline, um, slightly understated, right?

[05:40.36 - 05:58.60]

Uh, but, um, but then everybody just went bananas with the, uh, the kind of ding, ding dong, the, which is dead celebrations. I mean, what did you see first? Uh, what was, what was the first thing, that, uh, item of news that you saw as far as us?

1
Speaker 1
[05:58.60 - 06:06.02]

getting it wrong? Did we predict that he would not be convicted, or was it that I said, I don't expect him to see him in prison.

2
Speaker 2
[06:07.08 - 06:15.92]

I thought it was going to be a hung jury, and that was my, that was the, the thing. I put my cards on. So I was completely wrong.

1
Speaker 1
[06:16.46 - 06:34.12]

Yeah. Um, yeah, I can't remember my prediction, which is one of the blessed things, about being my age. You know, I, I'll remember my correct predictions, but the, the other ones just dissolve into thin air. Um, what did I think? I thought, I'll be honest with you.

[06:34.18 - 06:57.42]

I thought everything has changed. suddenly. I, it really, it really hit me that, uh, we had entered a new era. There was a, it was like there was a game that we've played for a couple hundred years, and now there's a new rule. Like in football, they had field goals and then they had, you know, safe touchbacks or whatever that.

[06:57.42 - 07:02.68]

then they had, uh, touchdowns, and now they've got something called, you.

2
Speaker 2
[07:02.68 - 07:08.52]

know, uh, the scuttleback starting on the 25 yard line.

1
Speaker 1
[07:08.52 - 07:26.40]

Yeah. Now we've got a five point, we've got a five point play in football. Um, and we've got a five point play in elections, which is, you know, in the spring, convict your opponent, uh, right before, you know, a month before the debates, or whatever. Yeah.

2
Speaker 2
[07:26.40 - 07:47.04]

This has been a small rule change. Like, you know, again, I went to, I went to a baseball game last week and, uh, having been a catcher for most of my life, the intentional walk used to be kind of a pain, right? You'd have to sit there and put your hand out and, and actually deliver four pitches. Now they just send you to first base, um, like a video game. So that's a small change.

[07:47.14 - 08:07.08]

This is kind of a big change. It felt like, uh, and you're right. I don't, it didn't sink in for me that something had changed until he actually lost, and maybe that's part of what their calculation was with all this. Um, but it did feel different. Uh, the reaction was wild.

[08:07.08 - 08:38.46]

watching it. It was, it was so like an orgyastic kind of celebration. Um, I thought maybe we could just go through a few, a few of the funnier ones. Uh, late night comedy was particularly interesting after the word got out. Uh, Stephen Colbert, who has essentially become kind of state TV, all the guests, they all have, uh, this is, this was his opening monologue.

3
Speaker 3
[08:38.52 - 09:01.56]

Thank you one and all, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the late show. I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. And I have to tell you, I'll be the first to say this is a great job and I love doing it. I get to come out here every night and feel at you about the news. Of course, the news being what it is.

[09:01.58 - 09:06.30]

Sometimes I don't feel so great. But tonight I feel good.

?
Unknown Speaker
[09:09.38 - 09:10.82]

Thank you.

1
Speaker 1
[09:11.04 - 09:13.66]

Was he here? Was James Brown just here?

3
Speaker 3
[09:14.78 - 09:19.16]

Because on Thursday evening, Donald Trump was found guilty on all 34 counts.

?
Unknown Speaker
[09:21.82 - 09:22.54]

Money.

2
Speaker 2
[09:24.08 - 09:28.20]

Yeah, there you go. Yes.

3
Speaker 3
[09:28.56 - 09:41.14]

Yes, I agree. This is truly an historic moment, as Donald Trump becomes the first us president convicted of a crime. Although once they almost nailed Martin Van Buren for hot wiring a horse.

1
Speaker 1
[09:43.90 - 09:44.74]

Let's go back.

3
Speaker 3
[09:44.86 - 10:03.30]

Come back with me now, ladies and gentlemen, to that fateful moment. Thursday, it was late afternoon and everyone assumed they'd be adjourning for the day. It was almost four 30.. Trump was feeling loose, believing a longer deliberation meant good news for him. And then suddenly the foreman sent the judge a note that they had come to a verdict.

[10:03.52 - 10:12.18]

And in an instant, the smiling stopped. A smattering of gasps could be heard. Then a heavy silence filled the room and.

[10:19.26 - 10:23.00]

And because it's Trump, it was silence, but deadly.

2
Speaker 2
[10:25.08 - 10:33.70]

OK, good fart joke there. And then he did. he did another routine. that that was even. he actually attempted comedy with the other one.

1
Speaker 1
[10:35.26 - 10:55.06]

OK, let's stop here. Yeah, the orchestration of every element was breathtaking. The band knew what to do. The band knew to jump into that, you know, I feel good and act as though they all felt good. No one, I guess, asked the band how they might have felt.

[10:55.06 - 11:13.74]

We're to assume, we're to assume that everybody spontaneously agreed and had and had similar levels of enthusiasm just from the get go. without you. They would have had it with their eyes closed. They would if they had all been in isolation chambers, they would have felt the same way.

2
Speaker 2
[11:14.74 - 11:21.50]

And no polling. We had to leave out the, you know, one of the horns players for this section.

1
Speaker 1
[11:21.68 - 11:39.76]

Right, right, right. Apparently there was no. there was no dissent whatsoever among the band and the audience. If there was any dissent, they didn't turn the camera on it. We didn't see them, you know, grabbing any single person, and, you know, rushing, pushing them to the ground for not screaming.

[11:41.08 - 12:09.10]

Yeah. So so I? so that was just bizarre as a piece of theater, because I remember there was a PG or the, all, you know, the Rolling Stone columnist back when he had a line about North Korea and he was talking about demonstrations of support for the dear leader of North Korea. And he said that they had perfected something in Korea called spontaneous regimentation.

[12:11.64 - 12:33.02]

And this was spontaneous regimentation with a little showbiz flair to it. You know, they all. they were perfectly regimented, but not equal in volume, but they were regimented in terms of sentiment. So that was amazing to see.

2
Speaker 2
[12:34.80 - 12:43.92]

Then I love the sort of, OK, let's pull back and do a bit so that we remind people this is a comedy show. The more. Yeah, I love that.

1
Speaker 1
[12:44.18 - 12:57.42]

But I mean, there was no time, or no, not just time, there was no space for the thought that, wow, half the people in the United States just saw their candidate.

[13:00.22 - 13:15.44]

convicted of a felony in a case that is rather peculiar. There was no thought that in the future we might not want every four years there to be a judicial element to our presidential election.

[13:17.08 - 13:24.84]

We were just rushed past this moment in history as though it was a winning high school football game.

[13:27.86 - 13:51.96]

That was freaky, that was odd, because, no matter how, no matter how much you dislike Trump, no matter how much you maybe even agree with the verdict that that the that a former president in the United States currently running in an election, currently leading in the polls, should be, you know, put in.

[13:53.52 - 14:27.54]

put in handcuffs, perhaps maybe on his way to prison, right, should be an element of comedy, should be fodder for comedy, and it's I mean, it was a little. I this is going to really get me in trouble, but it was a little like, you know, JFK got shot that day and everybody's like, yeah, but I mean, it's not. it's not that that happened, but for some people it was that way. Yeah, for some people it was, you know, and I imagine there's two or three of them who watched Stephen Colbert.

2
Speaker 2
[14:28.92 - 14:35.36]

Um, yeah, I mean, there was. there was a definite ding. dong, the witch is dead thing going on there.

[14:41.20 - 14:54.84]

I guess there would have been a little bit of muted. You know, that's okay. Well, let's take a day to pretend to feel bad about it. But moving on back to normalcy would have, would have probably ensued pretty quickly after that.

1
Speaker 1
[14:54.84 - 15:18.78]

I guess, I guess the I mean, to state the obvious, the gravity of this development, and I think it's grave, no matter what you think of Donald Trump wasn't even given point zero, five seconds of attention as we rushed into a, you know, an audience participation bit.

[15:20.62 - 15:25.96]

And how did they know? What kind of sign do they flash for them?

2
Speaker 2
[15:26.34 - 15:34.08]

We've seen that they always they have, they do have applause signs. I haven't been in that one, though. So I don't know. But some of them do have applause.

1
Speaker 1
[15:34.08 - 15:49.54]

Was there any dissent whatsoever? was the thing? I mean, did they screen people at the, you know, at the ticket line saying, Listen, you know, we're all gonna raz Donald Trump tonight? Are you willing to participate in that? Are you going to make a fuss?

2
Speaker 2
[15:50.08 - 16:00.38]

I'm guessing that if you're going to the show, you probably already think that way. So, um, which is medically sealed environment? now. Yeah. So, then came.

[16:00.38 - 16:03.62]

then came the gloating stage, which was kind of interesting.

[16:05.42 - 16:24.10]

This, this I thought, you know, they actually put work into this. This is another, I think, Colbert thing, where basically the the concept is they have to update Disney World now. Welcome to Walt Disney World's newly updated Hall of President.

1
Speaker 1
[16:28.28 - 16:31.34]

I united the country as the first U.

[16:31.34 - 16:45.50]

S. president. I enacted the Emancipation Proclamation. I used my mushroom penis to have underwhelming sex with a porn star and then committed a bunch of fraud to hide it.

[16:48.06 - 16:58.38]

I'm not allowed to own a gun or travel to Canada. What the hell is happening? Now, if you'll excuse me, I am late for my community service.

2
Speaker 2
[17:08.00 - 17:09.04]

I'm sorry.

[17:14.80 - 17:30.78]

I mean, I guess the idea, actually, let's just step back and evaluate it as comedy, because I think that's always useful. Right. It's not a bad idea. You know, the president, the whole of presidents idea. Right, right, right.

1
Speaker 1
[17:30.78 - 17:33.34]

I mean, I think it's pretty funny.

2
Speaker 2
[17:33.42 - 17:34.46]

That's a solid idea.

1
Speaker 1
[17:34.82 - 17:36.78]

Don't you think it was pretty funny jumpsuit?

[17:38.52 - 17:50.26]

You know, they're front running and doing a lot of wishful thinking there, but, you know, probably end up in a jumpsuit. So they'll get there. You know, they'll get their day.

2
Speaker 2
[17:52.74 - 18:04.96]

Although one of the newspapers pointed out that that actually they don't do orange jumpsuits in New York anymore. So, therefore, it's not really like being a prisoner. It was a New Yorker. Sorry.

1
Speaker 1
[18:05.24 - 18:24.08]

Right, right. You know, I remember when I was a kid and there was a show on called Laugh-In. Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In. It was a comedy variety show on at night. And Tricky Dick Nixon was, you know, a regular butt of jokes.

[18:24.08 - 18:43.42]

I don't know that. one positive thing was said about Richard Nixon on Laugh-In that I ever heard. as a kid. It was my belief watching it that no one liked Richard Nixon, you know, except my dad, which I had to deal with. It was.

[18:43.42 - 19:09.00]

it was strange to live in our house knowing that all of America was lined against this guy. Except my dad had gotten a letter from him once on form letter and kept it on his desk. I was eight and I thought they were friends, you know. But anyway, you know, I guess it can now be kind of considered a convention of Hollywood entertainment that no one at all likes Donald Trump.

[19:12.10 - 19:34.78]

And so why should we have expected anything different? I mean, they've been waiting for so long to have this moment. Probably, unlike you and me, everybody kind of on the inside knew it was a likely outcome. The writers were probably working on that Hall of Presidents sketch long before that afternoon.

2
Speaker 2
[19:35.36 - 19:46.90]

Oh, sure. It's like I remember walking in to NBC and seeing an old classmate of mine writing Boris Yeltsin's obituary, like five years before.

[19:51.24 - 20:09.42]

So, yeah, they do prepare for this stuff. But this one, yeah. And there was an awful lot, of awful lot of weirdness around this thing. And, you know, I just I just don't know what to make of it. I mean, I guess some of those jokes are funny.

[20:09.42 - 20:24.40]

The difference is that Nixon, they were, they were laughing at him. But I think there was some gravity about Watergate and how serious that was.

1
Speaker 1
[20:24.58 - 20:31.66]

And the Vietnam War in particular. I mean, they got started on him before there was a Watergate, as I remember.

[20:34.52 - 21:00.58]

It was America. America had a counterculture in those days. And Laugh-In was devoted to sort of mainstreaming kooky hippies. You know, Judy Carney, one of the, was one of the comedians. And they had a kind of dance moment in the show where everybody would pretend they were at a crazy psychedelic party.

[21:00.58 - 21:14.74]

And there isn't really an anti-Donald Trump culture the way there was an anti-Richard Nixon culture. It has its own music and its own way of dancing and its own way of talking.

2
Speaker 2
[21:14.94 - 21:21.82]

I mean, yeah, I mean, this. is it, though. It's just that? it's not, it's, it's a one note culture, though.

1
Speaker 1
[21:21.82 - 21:37.16]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a one note, culture. And it's rarely very creative in its knocks on Donald Trump. It's just, you know, he's vulgar. He's a crook.

[21:37.20 - 21:38.62]

He's Hitler or whatever.

[21:40.92 - 21:58.86]

Though Nixon was, though Nixon was not for some of the same supposed defects, you know, crude, vulgar, obscene. I don't know. Touchy. Yeah, touchy. There was a war going on.

[21:59.10 - 22:14.04]

What's so weird is that everything they were objecting to, you know, the liberals of Hollywood are objecting to in Nixon is stuff they're celebrating today. And by I mean, yeah, yeah, war, you know.

[22:16.18 - 22:26.80]

So it's hard to compare the two. Yeah, it's, it's hard to compare the two things, you know, the two moments. In fact, it's bizarre to compare them, because.

[22:29.36 - 22:48.82]

Today, what today the mainstream culture wants? the sort of authority of the old counterculture, counterculture, the moral authority, even though it seems to approve of all the power moves that Dick Nixon use in all sorts of ways, you know?

2
Speaker 2
[22:49.10 - 23:00.72]

Yeah, I think that's the key thing, right? Because this is picking on Nixon. Nixon was. he symbolized the political establishment, authority, the war, all of these things. Right.

[23:00.72 - 23:14.06]

He was part. he was the face of the machine at the time. And I think he was totally. he was fair game in the sense that it was never not punching up with Nixon. Right.

[23:14.18 - 23:31.20]

Like you're. and, and because he had, he was particularly touchy about being criticized and all those things. It is in some ways similar to Trump. Trump has it has a problem with this sometimes, but not to the degree that Nixon did. So.

[23:31.20 - 24:10.66]

when Hunter Thompson described Nixon saying, you know, the only thing he could he could imagine, Nixon laughing at was a paraplegic who couldn't reach high enough to vote Democratic. It was funny, right? I mean, there was a lot of humor to be had about Nixon and his face, you know, the whole thing. But this is this is establishment celebration that we're seeing. And even though Trump was president, there's no question that this is high society, you know, kind of organized institutional guffawing.

1
Speaker 1
[24:10.66 - 24:15.20]

And right. Well, Nixon, too, was criticized for being kind of de classe.

[24:18.04 - 25:06.18]

But the funny thing about this anti-Trump stuff is it does feel a little bit at times to me like bullying, even though the butt of it is Donald Trump himself, a bully. But but it feels like cultural bullying, because Trump does not represent the winners necessarily. He's at this point kind of an underdog, you know, populist candidate who, similarly to Nixon, does want to represent a silent majority. But that silent majority is not what it was. It's not warlike.

[25:06.48 - 25:10.96]

It's not doing all that well economically.

[25:14.12 - 25:38.10]

And so, so there is a different flavor to it. I personally, I personally, I kind of shudder a little bit to see the, you know, the glee with which a real change in our political system is celebrated as the revenge against one individual, you know.

2
Speaker 2
[25:38.10 - 26:11.28]

Right. And there was a total absence of it, just seemed like nobody really cared what the actual facts of this case were. He did something. He got convicted. And, you know, even within a couple of days after the conviction, they, a lot of the commentators switched overtly to this idea that, well, he's been getting away with it all his life.

[26:11.28 - 26:19.50]

So, whatever this is, it kind of fits. Right. And, you know, which is kind of a, you know, a striking.

1
Speaker 1
[26:21.04 - 26:38.54]

It's like the opposite of a Lifetime Achievement Award. You know, it isn't necessarily this movie that is his greatest. But let's give him an award for all the movies in the past that were pretty great. This is like it's not like. this is the crime that we should take him down on.

[26:38.84 - 26:44.84]

But he's committed so many others. Let's, let's let this one stand for those.

2
Speaker 2
[26:46.00 - 26:53.64]

Yeah, it's like giving. it's like Al Pacino's Scent of a Woman, Oscar. Right.

1
Speaker 1
[26:55.00 - 27:00.42]

Or Al Capone's tax dodging conviction, you know, you know.

2
Speaker 2
[27:00.42 - 27:04.02]

Well, yeah. So I saw a lot of people bring that up.

[27:06.10 - 27:28.36]

Maybe the tax dodging conviction was a little lengthy, but he at least did it. Right. You know, this is the problem I had with this case is like, I get, you don't like the guy, but you can't just give him 34 felonies for for. for this. It's not even a crime.

[27:29.30 - 28:00.26]

The other things, at least the other cases at least allege something pretty serious, at least in the J6 case, I would say, certainly alleges something that's pretty serious. The Espionage Act case, I just hate that law in general. I mean, the espionage, for, you know, mishandling materials or talking to a reporter like that's not espionage. They're using just a very draconian law to impose very serious penalties for almost anything they want, usually.

[28:02.18 - 28:21.14]

But in this case, we're talking about paying off a porn star, which I'm sure most of the people who are dealing with this had no idea is legal. You're allowed to do that. Even as a political candidate, you are allowed to pay somebody off to not talk. That's your business.

1
Speaker 1
[28:23.54 - 28:42.34]

Then you're allowed to pay them off, to have them shut up about the fact you had sex. The question is, from what account should you draw the payment? And how should you note it in your records? And are you somehow? are you somehow?

[28:44.06 - 28:55.24]

fixing or distorting an election by hiding information that the electorate, I guess, might have used? In other words, is covering up personal.

[28:58.50 - 29:00.34]

venality, election interference?

[29:02.06 - 29:07.26]

They came perilously close to saying that it was. In other words, you know,

[29:09.32 - 29:50.74]

but so if you hid your medical records that showed you have some disability, say, would that be election interference to hide the fact that you're having memory problems, perhaps? Or, you know, would any distortion of the factual record for purposes of getting elected be election interference? Well, that's all electioneering is, is distorting, or, you know, massaging the facts in order to make yourself seem more appealing, desirable, or whatever. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't quite get it. See, this seemed like the worst of both worlds.

[29:50.94 - 29:57.56]

We set a terrible precedent, a terrible precedent in which, you know, a sitting.

[30:00.14 - 30:02.44]

president can see his opponent.

[30:05.22 - 30:18.98]

perhaps jailed, but convicted by means that don't look totally kosher. And we did it for a stupid reason. I mean, right. And third, it's not going to matter.

[30:20.60 - 30:29.82]

Because it's already clear. people are going to ignore it. I mean, it was a fundraising coup, for not only was it a fundraising coup from small donors,

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