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America This Week, June 21, 2024: "Cheap Fakes and Real Mind Games"

2024-06-21 00:30:30

Welcome to America This Week, with Matt Taibbi and Walter Kirn, the national news wrap-up so true, we recommend you stow all sharp objects before reading. <br/><br/><a href="https://www.racket.news/s/america-this-week?utm_medium=podcast">www.racket.news</a>

2
Speaker 2
[00:04.92 - 00:07.60]

All right, welcome to America This Week, I'm Matt Taibbi.

1
Speaker 1
[00:07.86 - 00:08.86]

And I'm Walter Kern.

2
Speaker 2
[00:09.62 - 00:11.24]

Walter, are you home now?

1
Speaker 1
[00:11.66 - 00:38.74]

Yeah, I'm back in home, back at home base. I mean, I see that the rest of the country, according to cable news, is experiencing a heat dome, you know, dangerous heat wave. But I want the country to know that all that heat is being actually sucked out of Montana and replaced on the East Coast because it's been in the 30s here at night. Really? Yeah.

2
Speaker 2
[00:39.12 - 00:40.98]

So that's crazy.

1
Speaker 1
[00:41.36 - 00:50.04]

Six of one, half dozen to the other. And, as you reminded me, just a few moments ago, climate change activists have been screwing with Stonehenge.

[00:54.12 - 01:13.66]

And that explains to me all big wobbles in climate statistics, because the Druid gods will not be mocked. They're the ones who control the climate. It's not Jehovah. You know, Jehovah is hands off as far as that goes.

2
Speaker 2
[01:14.84 - 01:18.44]

Do these people not watch horror movies like Poltergeist?

[01:20.00 - 01:39.26]

How many, like ancient burial ground movies, are there where you disturb, you know, the sacred whatever and, you know, your curse for the mummy? I don't know, like Raiders of the Lost Ark, right? There's like 9000 of these, aren't there? You don't do this. Yeah.

1
Speaker 1
[01:39.68 - 02:01.22]

You know, their lack of piety toward traditional Abrahamic religion is one thing. That's very fashionable now. But going up against pagan deities, especially when you're trying to, you know, deal with nature, is bad, Juju. And I think these kids need to lay off.

2
Speaker 2
[02:02.18 - 02:13.76]

Right, right. You know, it wasn't. I didn't think we necessarily had to go into this, but we might as well just look at a few seconds of this, just because it was so crazy.

[02:33.78 - 02:35.76]

OK, we get it. We get it.

1
Speaker 1
[02:35.76 - 03:06.80]

You know, Hollywood has done a lot to configure our image of insanity, people, you know, their eyes bugging out and then they see triple and everything. But that was about as insane a set of images as I've ever seen. Some old dude with a skull on his T-shirt using orange smoke to try to deface a Druid, Neolithic structure.

2
Speaker 2
[03:09.10 - 03:17.54]

Don't. To do what exactly? Like? I see, this is the thing. I mean, it's actually kind of an interesting question, like to do.

[03:17.54 - 03:29.48]

do protest movements have to convince or persuade to be effective? And there's a there's this new belief that they don't have to. And I'm not sure I understand where that comes from.

1
Speaker 1
[03:29.72 - 03:55.86]

Well, when they go into the Louvre and they hit the Mona Lisa, or they go to Holland and the face of Rembrandt, I can sort of trace their logic. They're going back to the quote old white dudes who are part of the European hegemonic anti-nature drive that has gotten us all in this mess, according to them.

2
Speaker 2
[03:57.06 - 04:07.94]

But Stonehenge, I mean, you know, they were living pretty simply. There weren't. the carbon emissions, I'm guessing, were kind of low back at that time.

1
Speaker 1
[04:08.38 - 04:26.52]

Aren't those there? Aren't those people their ideal? I mean, you know, they dance around in the moonlight and, you know, they're naked, polyamorous, not particularly materialistic. Shouldn't they be? shouldn't they be forming a human chain around Stonehenge instead of?

2
Speaker 2
[04:27.78 - 04:30.04]

right? This should be spray painting outward.

1
Speaker 1
[04:30.44 - 04:36.00]

Yeah, exactly. Everything else. Exactly. Don't touch our hands off our Stonehenge.

[04:37.72 - 04:49.16]

Instead, they're going to the heart of their cosmic support and biting and biting the hand that feeds them. This is Lovecraftian horror in the making.

2
Speaker 2
[04:49.36 - 05:09.66]

I know. Right, right. Yeah, I just I have trouble grasping exactly what the idea is here. I mean, well, we don't really have to get into it, but I just think it's a strange way of looking at things. This is all like, well, we don't need you to understand.

[05:10.04 - 05:22.96]

We're just we're raising awareness, but it's negative awareness. It's kind of Bill Maher does this routine all the time about people who block traffic. Does that help a cause or not?

1
Speaker 1
[05:23.76 - 05:27.90]

I think all those people we just saw are on the payroll of Exxon.

2
Speaker 2
[05:30.20 - 05:46.96]

You know, I see a couple of people who were suggesting that that stop. was it stop new oil or stop, stop oil now, or whatever? it is that there it's a big oil and gas op. Sorry. Right.

1
Speaker 1
[05:47.76 - 05:55.08]

Yeah. Well, you know where it makes sense. Follow the money. Are we? let's follow the money.

[05:55.24 - 06:06.60]

All these people were able to take time off from the jobs they don't actually have in order to do this. And so someone's supporting them. And I'm just not sure who's behind it. Big solar.

2
Speaker 2
[06:07.82 - 06:53.08]

Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Well, so we're going to be talking later about a short story that gets into the question of what happens to people when their ability to feel grounded in reality is shaken. And we're reaching really an interesting moment in our history there, because even people who are very more schooled in the news, who spent our whole lives in media, like we, don't we have no idea what's going on now, like whether whether the news is front, running some intelligence situation or it's the opposite. But it's very confusing.

[06:54.06 - 07:06.90]

I think we have to back up and I don't know, it's not really take a bow, but point out that last week, on this very show, we were discussing this new A.

[07:06.90 - 07:35.70]

I. driven game, or this game about A.I. called Haywire, that was designed by In-Q-Tel, the venture capital arm of the CIA. And one of the cards that we showed was one called Mind Games. And it said an easy to use voice model helps create a viral video suggesting that one of the candidates may have dementia.

[07:37.02 - 07:52.66]

And in between that moment, actually, it was pretty much simultaneous to when we were cutting that show. Joe Biden was over in Europe and creating a series of videos that went viral. And on Monday.

[07:54.30 - 08:00.54]

The White House spokesperson, Corinne Jean-Pierre, had this to say.

3
Speaker 3
[08:01.44 - 08:13.24]

I'm wondering if the White House is especially worried about this. appears to be a pattern. Yeah. And I think you all have called this the cheap fakes video. And that's exactly what they are.

[08:13.34 - 08:41.44]

They are cheap fakes video. They are done in bad faith. And in some of your news organization have have been very clear, have stressed that these right wing, the right wing critics of the president have a credibility problem because of the fact. checkers have repeatedly caught them pushing misinformation, disinformation. And so we see this and this is something coming from from your, your part of the world calling them cheap fakes and misinformation.

[08:42.34 - 08:47.10]

And I'll quote the Washington Post where they wrote. they wrote about this and they said

2
Speaker 2
[08:47.10 - 08:48.02]

this is so interesting.

3
Speaker 3
[08:48.34 - 09:13.66]

Use misleading videos to attack Biden in a 24 hour period. And to their credit, we have a conservative Washington examiner did call them out as well, calling out the New York Post. Ironically, several, several recent fakes actually attacked the president for thanking troops, for thanking troops. That is what they're attacking the president for, both in Normandy. This happened, and again in Italy.

[09:14.24 - 09:37.26]

And I think that it tells you everything that we need to know about how, how desperate, how desperate Republicans are here. And instead of talking about the president's performance and what I mean by that is his legislative wins, what he's been able to do for the American people across the country. We're seeing these deep fakes, these manipulated videos.

2
Speaker 2
[09:38.26 - 10:08.06]

So. That was, if you're, if you're not listening closely to what she was saying, that was a virtuoso performance in in sort of propaganda, because she was taking a Washington Post story that talked about cheap fakes, which is an invented term. And we can talk about the pliability of language around all this, because it's that's also really interesting. Cheap fakes is just selective editing, basically. It's like you.

[10:08.06 - 10:21.28]

you left out part of the shot. So it looks like it looks worse than maybe it really was, but it's real, right? A deep fake is something that's digitally created. It's like an AI generated image. that's fake.

[10:21.84 - 10:47.08]

And so she, she went from talking about cheap fakes. And then at the end, she, she, she talks about deep fakes. And this confuses the audience into thinking that what you saw over there in in Europe, where Biden was, you know, variously falling asleep or turning around and looking in the wrong direction or walking off someplace and having to be retrieved by people.

1
Speaker 1
[10:47.66 - 10:49.02]

Or head bumping the pope.

2
Speaker 2
[10:49.56 - 11:09.08]

Right. Head, bumping the pope. That those were, those were AI generated images. And, you know, when we saw that, we were like, wow, that was in the game, you know, that that they blame this on AI, was, was, was kind of incredible. I don't know.

[11:09.18 - 11:22.38]

I mean, what do you think about that? But the the brazenness of of of that White House press conference there, that that was striking to me. Well, you're right.

1
Speaker 1
[11:22.40 - 11:27.36]

It was very calculated, even though it might have appeared to be, you know, off the cuff.

2
Speaker 2
[11:27.88 - 11:29.20]

Yeah. Not at all. Yeah.

1
Speaker 1
[11:29.20 - 11:39.82]

They had this term, cheap fakes, and they elided it into the term. we're familiar with, deep fakes for a far more serious form of deception.

[11:42.82 - 11:49.92]

They professed not to have come to these conclusions themselves, but only to be following the press.

2
Speaker 2
[11:51.62 - 11:55.88]

Right. Which is another thing we've seen a lot of in the last eight years, by the way.

1
Speaker 1
[11:55.88 - 12:18.50]

Oh, actually, the whole war on terror, circular construction, you know, first you get it, or what they call the wrap up smear, I guess. First, you get the press to print it, then you notice the press has printed it and use that as a confirmation of your own beliefs or assertions.

[12:20.06 - 12:59.08]

It's precious close to trying to melt reality before our eyes, because, you know, the essence of what we're being told is that imagery and video, at least as it reflects Joe Biden's state of mind and body, is unreliable. It was kind of a warning not to pass that stuff around anymore. Exactly. It was a real power move. It was like, you know, from here on out, any of this stuff is suspect and we're going to treat it as fraudulent.

[13:00.68 - 13:20.10]

And, you know, and what, and what are people to do? Because now that they've introduced this notion that, you know, video can't be trusted, who, what are they going to do? Are they going to watermark it with the White House initials so that we know what to look at and what not to?

[13:22.16 - 13:55.06]

You know, there's a famous quote from Orwell, you know, the party's final command was not to believe your eyes and ears. That's not the quote, but it comes to that. And so now. so now we have this. And, you know, in a world where you, in a world where you're told that what you read on Twitter or social media or whatever might be disinformation, and now you're told what you see might be cheap or deep faking.

[13:56.34 - 14:15.22]

What can you do except retire and await instructions? You know, you know, the discernment has now been ruled out. Personal discernment has now been ruled out as a reliable way to. Decide how to vote, whatever.

2
Speaker 2
[14:16.62 - 14:44.94]

And as a journalist, it's. it's really disturbing because the what traditionally the way you we respond to this whole thing is, well, the truth will set the audience free. So as long as we just tell them what really happened, you know, it'll be OK. But that doesn't work anymore. Like you can publish, you know, something that's true, or you can show as much evidence as you want.

[14:45.08 - 15:12.70]

And if it doesn't get picked up and there isn't a consensus about it, then a feeling of kind of helplessness sets in. after a while. You know, you're not really moving the needle at all. And then meanwhile, they're, they're changing the definitions of things in really important ways, like this whole idea of misinformation and disinformation. They've been subtly kind of, you know, we talked about Stonehenge.

[15:14.14 - 15:30.16]

It's like something you can't move, no matter how much pressure you put on it. Well, they've been taking these words that have very concrete meanings, right? Like misinformation, disinformation. They've always had the connotation of something is inaccurate in there, right? Like the.

[15:30.16 - 15:58.50]

the only thing that was different about them was disinformation was intentional lies, and misinformation might have been accidental lies. But now they've. now they've added this definition of inaccurate or misleading. Right. Which which could be true things, but, you know, it's leading you to the wrong conclusion, which is the same thing as malinformation, right?

1
Speaker 1
[15:58.88 - 16:03.40]

Help helpful to the wrong people at the wrong time.

2
Speaker 2
[16:04.42 - 16:09.18]

Right, right. So what was a bright line, you know, true, not true.

[16:12.14 - 16:32.04]

Invented, not invented. now starts to become blurred, and the only thing that you have to rely on in terms of deciding whether or not a thing is misinformation or disinformation is authority, I think. Right. And, you know, that that's deeply disorienting.

1
Speaker 1
[16:32.68 - 17:06.66]

Well, you know, we talked at one point over the last year about this German Nazi philosopher, Karl Schmitt, who believed that, you know, politics came down to the friend, enemy distinction. Does it, you know, there's a piece of information, does an endeavor, does a person help you or harm you? And now we have a friend, enemy distinction as applied to information. Is it helpful information or is it harmful? Is it your, you know, and.

[17:08.10 - 17:15.32]

For example, she suggested that there is a Republican way of looking at videos and a Democrat way or.

2
Speaker 2
[17:17.78 - 17:27.96]

Yeah, and they even frame it that way, even though I don't think the majority of people, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to point out, look at the Washington Post, headline, right?

[17:30.50 - 17:45.28]

Cheap fake Biden videos and rapture right wing media. So there's two things they're really saying here. They're using cheap fake to kind of, you know, trick your mind into going to that deep fake place. And then they're saying that it's coming from the right wing.

1
Speaker 1
[17:46.66 - 18:21.76]

But notice, the one thing they don't do, the one thing they don't do is report on the truth of the matter, as we used to understand it. You know, did other people there think the guy was confused? looking at a longer version of the videos? You know, hey, man, everything placed in context, you know, the bigger the context, the less alarming. I mean, if he walked off the edge of the earth, he only did it once compared to the larger frame.

[18:21.76 - 18:56.40]

So why make a big deal of it? But as this happens, what I think we're getting is a truly postmodern sense of the news. And, Matt, I think our Jurassic mindset is being, is being highlighted here, because we really are dealing with people who believe that it's just. it's all a war of perception and belief. And it's, you know, belief beats truth.

[18:56.40 - 19:02.08]

It's who believes what, at what time, with what intensity, to what end.

2
Speaker 2
[19:02.66 - 19:06.54]

And the rest of it, to what end, is very important. Yeah, yeah.

1
Speaker 1
[19:07.43 - 19:29.88]

The rest of it is some sort of superstitious, old school, you know, classical belief in objectivity that has passed from the earth. And and it does undermine the very, the very tradition, at least traditional idea of what journalism is, as far as digging.

[19:31.88 - 19:53.80]

The idea that you strike something hard, finally, and you go, oh, I found it, and you pull up the box, and there in it is the truth. Well, you know, for them, there's another box inside that box, and then you can dig again, and you can go forever. But what's the point of that? Let's pull back and decide, was it helpful or wasn't it?

2
Speaker 2
[19:55.16 - 20:08.78]

Right. Yeah, they, this idea that things are either, you know, anything that's selectively edited is a cheap fake. Everything is selectively edited, like every everything.

1
Speaker 1
[20:08.88 - 20:14.72]

Well, first of all, that term is redundant. Editing and selective are the same thing, you know.

2
Speaker 2
[20:14.94 - 20:17.48]

Right, right. That's my fault. I'm sorry. Yeah, but yeah.

1
Speaker 1
[20:17.60 - 20:29.90]

But but that's the term they use. It's not your fault. They call it selective editing. You know, if they didn't edit the news, we'd be sitting here 24 hours a day watching it. It would be as long as life itself.

[20:30.46 - 20:31.54]

Come on, man.

2
Speaker 2
[20:32.36 - 20:47.18]

Right, right, right. And that's like the old Steve Wright joke, you know, it's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it, you know, like, you know, if you covered everything, you'd be, you know, it would never end.

[20:48.80 - 21:09.02]

But, as we all know, and it's funny because probably we all made the same journey in the business. You come up and you realize that objectivity is a very complicated question, because every, every decision that goes into how news is presented means something. You know, you put something on the front page. Do you use big font, little font? Do you?

[21:09.02 - 21:16.56]

do you put the scary quote high? Do you put it low? Do you do put in your buried inside? You know, all those things matter.

1
Speaker 1
[21:16.56 - 21:39.04]

But traditionally, whether whether this was actually the case or not, it was at least sometimes the case. Traditionally, what governed those decisions was, you know, what covered those decisions as to how big to run things, how long to run things with what force to run things was.

[21:40.62 - 21:53.94]

The the objective truth of the matter, you know, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't. Will this work? Will this push the electorate this way or that way? How helpful is this? It was.

[21:55.12 - 22:06.72]

How do we reflect, in terms of our decision making and our editing, the what what we truly believe to be the true proportions and dimensions of the story?

[22:08.32 - 22:51.10]

And now, and so there was always an arbiter, a third thing between left, right. Uh, this side, that side, which was. The entity called the story, pull that out, and you just pull that out, you've got a free for all, and what's scary, of course, to everyone who knows where this goes, is that. At that point, it's just who has the bigger megaphone, who can scare the other side into submission, who has the fastest talkers and the best sophistry on their side. And.

[22:52.00 - 23:22.10]

Then you go, OK, but what's the point of politics in general? Let's just have a war, you know. Let's just see who wins, because now that it's arbitrary, just get out the pitchforks and have at it. We were supposedly pacified and kept and kept peaceful by acknowledging this outside governing authority of the truth.

2
Speaker 2
[23:25.40 - 23:38.70]

And audiences had to trust us a little bit, because the trust that we were trying to give the most honest representation of, you know, whatever facts that we had, and.

[23:40.74 - 24:28.26]

But, you know, news organizations aren't compelled to add context to help one side or the other, they may decide to make it hit one, you know. Hit a little bit in one direction more than another, I mean, it depends on how they judge what what reality is. But the reason I bring that up is because one of the things that The Washington Post cited as an example of like missing context was the video of Biden where he's supposedly falling asleep in the middle of I think it was Lapo M an hour ago that he was listening to. And apparently there's a an earpiece in the other ear where he was listening to a translation. And the implication was, well, the video doesn't show the earpiece.

[24:28.40 - 24:31.90]

And so you don't realize that he's closing his eyes to listen to the translation.

[24:33.88 - 24:56.58]

Like. that's absurd, right? Like the idea that that's somehow hiding context is ridiculous. Now, in another video, there's one where he appears to be like trying to sit down, and it looks really bad if you don't see that there are some other people far down the row in the crowd that are also doing the same thing.

[24:58.14 - 25:00.58]

That's a little bit deceptive, I would say.

1
Speaker 1
[25:00.78 - 25:20.58]

But you know what? You know, one way to sort of judge the levels of deceptiveness here is to make some statement or come to some conclusion about whether the guy's really confused or not. But we don't get that. We don't get that. We don't get that reporting.

[25:21.78 - 25:30.42]

It's all about appearances. But I have a way to arbitrate that. Find out whether Joe Biden's losing his marbles.

[25:32.06 - 25:40.86]

And it's because it is it can be assessed. There are ways of assessing it. And they're not doing them.

2
Speaker 2
[25:41.60 - 25:55.06]

No, they're not. And, you know, we've probably talked about this before, but this was clear even in 2020 that he was. he was careening downward, as far as that went. Right. Like there were.

[25:55.06 - 26:29.52]

there were problems, not just with his ability to remember where he was like, you know, he does this thing where he kind of disappears for a second and then comes back and he's completely mystified as to geographically where he is, but the context of the situation. You know, that's a scary thing. You can see that it's freaking him out behind his eyes. Sometimes he would react emotionally incorrectly, like somebody would ask him a question that was maybe a little bit confrontational, but like, what would come back? would be rage, right?

[26:29.54 - 26:31.52]

Or he would be physically poking somebody.

1
Speaker 1
[26:32.48 - 27:01.97]

And what's crazy here, Matt, is that we actually have a legal situation in which a prosecutor declined to go after him because he said he was too old and his memory was too bad. So so there we have a document, you know, a third thing with which to try to adjudicate this dispute over whether people are misrepresenting his state. And it's not discussed.

2
Speaker 2
[27:03.64 - 27:07.52]

No, no. And this, sorry, go ahead.

1
Speaker 1
[27:07.52 - 27:23.04]

And I believe there have been some attempts to to gain access to that testimony, which which caused that decision not to prosecute. And they've been frustrated, which, you know, which is also telling.

[27:26.32 - 27:30.46]

I saw also on Twitter Mark Cuban, the billionaire.

[27:33.34 - 27:56.68]

Arguing with people that he'd spoken with Biden, the guy was just absolutely clear as a bell. And how could they do this to him? And. That's unfair to people who have drawn a conclusion from watching these things, because what you're really telling them, you're insulting them, you're, you're saying, you're saying.

2
Speaker 2
[27:56.68 - 27:58.30]

that you don't have a billion dollars.

1
Speaker 1
[27:58.74 - 28:06.50]

Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a billion dollars. You can't talk to the guy on the phone. I have special access here.

[28:07.34 - 28:24.26]

I can, let me assure you. So, over and over again, all they've got is. I'm telling you, why? why don't you listen? Why don't you quit this, doing your own research thing or using your own eyes thing and listen to the masters?

2
Speaker 2
[28:26.32 - 28:29.10]

It's, it's, it's very disturbing.

[28:31.70 - 28:51.70]

Obviously, there is a a story on the other side of what's going on with Trump's, you know, mental faculties. He doesn't seem to be in the same place as Biden at all. You know, vigor wise. But he's. you know, there are things that you notice right after eight years.

[28:51.70 - 29:23.94]

He will sometimes grasp for a name and not get it, but he, he moves on. But you have to be, you have to be able to catch those things. But in a larger sense, this is just all kind of the same thing, where we're just told some kind of story that is patently unbelievable and asked to accept it. And it's just happening over and over, and over and over again. And then, if and when truths come out, we're just asked to kind of set them aside and forget it.

[29:24.50 - 29:43.84]

So everything from, you know, the Cuban sonic weapon story to, you know, all the different things they told us about covid. Right. This, this will absolutely, you know, if you get the shot, you will not die. You will not transmit it. You know, you must mask.

[29:44.26 - 29:57.56]

And now we find out that that was a, you know, sort of arbitrarily decided, the six foot distancing. And I think these are things that are. you know, they've been coded as right wing issues.

[29:59.50 - 30:01.72]

And I don't think they really are there.

1
Speaker 1
[30:01.72 - 30:29.98]

Well, unless, unless in some philosophical sense, it's right wing to believe that there is a ground truth in certain matters, whereas, you know, the left wing philosophical stances that it's all a dialectic, it's it's all a reflection of power relations. And. You know, it's almost like belief.

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