Woody Harrelson & Ted Danson

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

We have a twofer today.

This one was fun.

Yeah, very.

Flirty and fun. Flirty and fun. They're so different, and yet their combined rapport is so unified.

It's got a good vibe.

It's got a good aura. Good rhythm. Woody Harrelson and Ted Danson. So Ted is returning, which is lovely, because it's been quite a while since we talked about Ted. And that was great.

He's up there.

He's truly at the tippity top.

Yeah, I liked him a lot.

We had so much fun. He liked you a lot. Woody Harrelson is an award-winning actor. Ted Danson is an award-winning actor and producer. They have a podcast together.

He's an objects man.

He's an objects man.

He's an objects man.

Welcome to the attic. This is a vibe, right? Well, hello there. Oh, Ted.

I think this is one of the first podcasts I ever did. Yeah? Was this with you?

It was early days, yeah.

I think it was, yeah, within the second year, maybe.

Probably first.

First? Wow, then that was a big favor. No, it was first. Yeah.

Tristan had done one.

Yeah, we did a good place week.

Almost had a fight on air.

No, no, not almost.

Now we edit, so if you want anything out, you tell us.

Well, we'll edit anything. Ted says out, but not Woody. So there's two different sets of rules.

You don't want to lose anything that Woody says. Are you okay? if I don't? Of course. As long as I stay close?

You're such a wonderful codependent. I adore that about you.

I am a codependent. That's like a wuss. Is that what we're saying? No.

No, no. No, you could be an ass-kicking codependent, for sure.

But he is a wuss codependent.

Yeah, one could be a kick-ass, but if one were so inclined.

You have beautiful houses and places. Yes.

So, here's to the wusses of the world.

Your interview was years ago, but there are a couple of things that still cycle through my mind.

Besides psoriasis.

Well, that we knew, going in, that we're psoriasis. brothers. Woody, do you have any kind of autoimmune issues that you could bond with us over?

No, he's the healthiest human being on the planet.

No.

You're not wrestling with any kind of health issues currently? Okay, good.

I had a little accident, but once that gets all mended.

What were you riding, like a bicycle or a motorcycle?

Electric motorcycle. You know, my daughter just had her 18th birthday party Sunday night at the bike shed, which is a place I love. It's like for people who like motorcycles. You'd love it. Oh, yeah.

Okay, so you were on an electric motorcycle, riding in what, you were, in someone's blind spot?

He seemed to be going really slow. Why is he moving so slow? So I'm going around him, but I'm passing him on the left. Okay. Which is when I realized.

Making a left turn. Making a left turn.

Preparing to turn left. Yes. Like I said to him, it would have been so bad to see a blinker.

So he turns left, I'm assuming you kind of t-boned him with the motorcycle. Okay, and he gets out and Woody Harrelson's there. How quickly does he notice?

He didn't notice till my helmet came off. He was chastising me. Why are you passing me on the left? I'm sorry, I didn't. You're right, but you shouldn't do that.

Then we were on pretty shifted temperatures.

We were doing some laughing before it was all over.

Yeah, I bet the temperature changed a bit.

People recognized you.

Well, I don't know, but a lot of cars were slowing down, but also we're like in the middle of the road.

I did take a picture with five people. I don't know if they recognized me or they just wanted to get a photo with the guy in an accident.

See the idiot who passed on the left.

But it sounds like you were really gracious while he was scolding you. That would have been hard for me to take the lashing.

Yeah, you would have been like, I haven't taken enough of a-.

I got my punishment. I just crashed and I'm all fucked up. You're good. You don't need to administer any further.

My bike needs to be towed. My hand-.

He was driving a Tesla, right?

Tesla.

Oh, you guys deserved each other. Yeah. Electric motorcycle and electric car. Yeah.

That reminds me of Laura was driving and she kind of cut somebody off and kept going. And anyway, naturally, you know how it works here. They catch up. Yep. He's right there.

He keeps going.

I bet until he saw you, he was thinking of saying something else.

Yeah, exactly.

Sure, sure, sure.

No, I don't think he-.

Really? If you get cut off by somebody and then you catch up.

You've gone through the effort to catch up.

You're probably going to unload on them, aren't you?

I thought it was a perfect unload. Tesla people. It was poetic.

Two words. Also in a courtroom, being read back, you're like, so what? I said, Tesla people, they are. That's what they are. It's like deniable, but aggressive.

No one's talking about the car I pulled up in. It's a very manly Rivian.

Oh, what is it?

I saw that. Oh, yeah.

I like the Rivian.

Me too.

It's right out of Detroit.

It's a manly electric car instead of those little Teslas.

Pussy ass Teslas. Teensy Teslas. No, I like the Tesla. To me, it's great that he's changed the whole landscape because of those Teslas.

Yeah, he fast forwarded everything. about 10 years. Undeniable. He forced everyone's hand.

We need to convince him to let the rest of us use his infrastructure, because that was brilliant on his part, but now we need to be able to buy our way in, or else it's going to slow down.

Well, he listened.

Oh, you mean, because all those charging stations only work for Teslas?

It was clever, but now we need in. Yeah.

Okay, so what I was going to say, I remember from that interview that I do think sums you up in the most beautiful ways. You came up with the analogy that you feel like your life has been riding in the back of a pickup truck, looking backwards.

Enjoying what I'm seeing, but never really choosing.

All of a sudden, like, oh, what's this? This is Cheers. I didn't see it coming, but I see it now.

Until I met Mary. It was the first time I hopped out of the back, the pickup, and grabbed the steering wheel because I wanted that.

Yes, yes, yes.

Big time.

You couldn't just roll the dice and hope it appeared in the rear view mirror. But the codependency, when you're afraid to stick up for yourself. last night, whatever that issue was, do you go so far as to work through what happens when you do this? They're going to think what? That Ted's selfish or not a good person?

I'd say 10, 15% of it's altruistic, where I really do care about not hurting somebody else. This is a lifelong thing, too. If somebody kind of bumps into Mary or insults her, or does something, not insults her, she'll haul off and take care of herself. But if there's something where I should stand up and be manly, I'll look at her and go, you're all right, this is fine, don't worry. Ow.

Not today.

Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen that.

Shut up. It's happened once.

Well, the other thing I discovered through researching you both today, and I didn't know this when I was a guest on your podcast, we are all exactly 14 years apart. Wow. Woody, you're 14 younger than Ted, and I'm 14 years younger than you. This is to the day. There's a symmetry here.

Divisible by seven, it's a good number. Seven's like a spiritual.

It is even. Yeah. I prefer seven. I prefer it even.

That's amazing.

It is kind of, right? And then almost Monica's 12 years younger than you.

Yeah, I don't fit in.

We almost did.

Almost. If you could only have been born two years earlier.

We can reduce my age. I'm happy to be 34..

Later, yeah, yeah.

We would have liked to see you come out in 89 instead.

Wait, so let's go around the room. How old, Monica?

36.

49.

Speak up. It's your turn.

We're going youngest to oldest. Have you not seen the pattern?

You're 62.

Until next month.

But July, he's going to hop up to 63 and that'll put us at 14.

In December, I'll be 77.

77.

That's so funny.

How does it feel?

Can't you tell?

No, we can't. That's why we would ask. It doesn't seem like it's having any effect on you.

The joints, you know, the joints hurt.

Oh, I thought you meant less.

My joints hurt less when I smoke a joint. Actually, that's not true.

It's a rare case where the cure is also the problem.

I will say it feels like it's dessert time for me. One of the things I'm not going to mention, but it was nothing. It was me approving a photo or not approving a photo that we both loved. And then we're starting to get talked out of it, or I was. What hit me when I was finally back in my body and saying, nope, sorry, this is what I want, was I'm 76..

Are you feeling at all the lifting? And I'm not sure how much you had it anyways, but the weight and the pressure to succeed and produce and to conquer.

I found a way to keep that going by building a house and going so far into debt, it's almost a joke. I'm too embarrassed even to tell you. Oh my, I will not tell you.

How underwater you are. How underwater.

So it's like, you have to go out and work. It's not an ego thing. It's just, boy, you better.

Did either of you have the weight of like, I gotta fucking do everything. I gotta get this done. I gotta succeed.

I wanna hear your answer, Woodrow.

You have the appearance of just kind of floating through these magical successes. On the outside, that's what we think. But I don't really believe someone can float through accidentally and have your career.

It's a funny thing, because you hear people who say, oh, you know, I never wanted to be an actor. I never wanted to be famous. Music, whatever it is. And I'm like, that is such bullshit. Yeah.

Sully.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

I was gonna say the player.

We still go to Sully. Who's now Tom Hanks in my mind.

Yeah, right, me too. But literally nobody just becomes famous other than those rare examples. You really have to work at it. It's not easy, even to pop above the froth, you know.

Calling us froth.

That's a very nice way to put that. All of you frothers out there.

Take no offense, frothers.

Those little frothers. But no, I suppose I had felt that certainly in my life, where I felt really ambitious. And now I feel ambitious, but in a different way. Things that I really care about, I want to do. I don't want to just, oh, let me do that, because I think it'll be a successful project.

Do you guys ever succumb to this fantasy where it's like, okay, I'm gonna do X. And after X, I'm gonna relax and enjoy. And then, once you're relaxing and enjoying, you go, I'm kind of miserable. relaxing and enjoying. What the fuck is this story, I'm telling?

I did. When I turned 70, I, in hindsight, realized that I was looking for a nice kind of gentle, grassy field to land on and make sure all my eggs were in order, and da, da, da, da, and all of that. Eggs, ducks, something.

Mary has the eggs. Sorry, go ahead.

Hey, man, that was just uncalled for. Then I met Jane Fonda. I was turning 70 when she was turning 80 and she had her foot on the fucking gas pedal. beyond belief. She's 86..

She's astounding.

She is, she's a force of nature. We interviewed her and I was completely blown away and fell in love with her. And I was like, yeah, I would definitely, if I were single, I would marry Jane Fonda right now, at this age.

She, by the way, I think, would take you on. I know, I think there was some sparks.

I'd like to see that little power duo.

It'd be fun, right? Okay, so I see the symmetry here, because, Ted, you are attracted to people.

who aren't codependent.

Yeah, they need my help, but go on.

There's a funny dynamic, Woody, when the four of us all hang out. Mary and Kristen pair off, and Ted and I pair off because Kristen's very much like Ted, and Mary and I are very similar. But, Woody, you two have no problem, from what little I know of you. You don't have any problem saying no or telling people what you need.

What do you mean? Like in any context? You're doing it right now.

You're already disagreeing. You can't even go along with that. No, no. You just proved my point.

No, but I didn't know.

Yes, just generally, you mean.

Yes, you don't have a hard time advocating for yourself.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

It's a good thing.

You two are a good pairing in that way.

Very much so, huh. Next question.

Okay, great.

From the time I met Teddy and I always felt there's something interesting where he'll play this weakness or this codependence, but he's also very strong, very powerful, great mind.

Indomitable.

Anything he wants you to do, he could manipulate you into doing. The most ridiculous shit. Do you want to go help him build the wall? Yeah. Yeah, oh, okay.

Yeah, no, I agree. All false humility aside, which is boring. I'm discovering that my self-deprecation through this podcast, when I hear back some of the bullshit I say that is so annoying, you know, maybe once you can get away with it, then it's like, fuck off. You know? Yeah, enough of this.

Isn't it funny when you go back and hear.

Yeah, oh, it's horrible. And I've actually said, can you cut out 90% of my self-deprecation, which left us about 10 minutes of podcast.

Yeah.

I'm horrible. But anyway, let me go back to Woody and me. I grew up trained to be sensitive and I didn't have a brother.

You had an older sister.

Older sister, but totally simpatico and old enough that it was no competition. So along comes Woody, and it was like, all of a sudden I had an older, younger brother. With brothers, you can beat the crap out of each other because you know there's love at the bottom and you're going to be safe, even though you will take it to the brink. I got to experience that in some ways with Woody, and it was just astounding to have that in my life.

Well, your guys' childhoods are so radically different. So you're in Flagstaff with an archeologist father and an older sister and you've got two brothers. I assume you think everyone knows this. I had no clue of this history until today that your father was a hitman and was convicted.

Supportedly.

Allegedly.

Allegedly, that's the word.

One acquitted trial, one convicted trial, and then the assassination of a federal judge.

Wow, I love this. That he did not do.

I don't know if he did it or not. I think that the government did a lot of nasty shit in the trial and pretrial and everything, but that's a good summary.

Yeah, I mean, suffice to say, the opposite of a professor, archeologist. Right. Ted's father.

We'll leave it at that.

Yes.

Wow, that's fascinating.

Isn't it fascinating? So you, Woody, were born in Texas. You grew up in Houston. Dad left early, though, right?

Yeah, he was gone a lot of the time, but then he was incarcerated.

And then you moved to Ohio. at what, eight or so? Or no, 12-ish?

Yeah.

Okay, and you go up to Lebanon, Ohio, and you're a kid from Texas. Your dad is incarcerated, and you've got an accent. How did that adjustment go?

Well, it was a little more complicated than I'd anticipated, because I kind of imagined this Huck Finn, Tom Sawyer type of environs in the Midwest in Ohio. But then I got there, and it didn't change much from when I'd been in Houston. It seemed like everybody wanted to fight me.

It really felt like they were doing it. You don't look back and go-.

I wasn't provoking, no. And back then, I was quite shy and very low-key, but I don't know why the tension would come my way, that I wasn't wanting, not like later in life. Sure, sure. So I did a lot of fighting.

Yes, I'm from Michigan, and a blue collar, a lot of Kentucky transplants, a lot of violence. If you came to my school with a Southern accent, it was on. I know what your experience was like. There's no way you didn't get fucked with nonstop.

A lot, yes.

Were your brothers older or younger?

Both. I was in the middle.

Okay, that's a dangerous man.

Right.

The middle brother's a dangerous man.

Middle child's dangerous.

Yeah.

Needs a lot of attention, that middle child.

Sure, eventually. We gotta go get him. How were the brothers faring? Were they getting fucked with as well?

Well, my older brother, who was quite small,

Did you hate school? I would've hated it.

No, I didn't hate it. There were people in the school I didn't like.

Sure, but who were you in high school? What kind of kid were you?

Well, I became kind of a model student, and I was always a mama's boy, and I did really well in school. Other than, ironically, drama. I took a drama class. I thought I did very well. I memorized Casey at the bat, presented it to the class.

Oh, wow.

Baseball hater.

Yeah.

Southern hate, a Yankee.

Yeah, that's what it was.

Yeah, yeah.

Some Northerner. Yankee hate.

Yeah.

You go to Hanover College, so you're a good student. This is fascinating. You were pals with Mike Pence there? Is that true or not true?

I wouldn't say pals, but he was there. He was a couple years older, and he did kind of help me. I gave a sermon there. I was considering being a minister. I was Presbyterian.

Well, you had the charisma, we found out. That's a prerequisite.

Well, clearly you have a ton of charisma. Yeah, that's not really a question.

It's oozing out of every fucking crack and scab you have on your hand.

I don't talk about it much.

Can you tell me why? I don't have to. I'm just curious.

Because there's a lot of sensational stuff in there that I just feel like, you know, it's sensationalism.

It's low-hanging fruit.

Yeah, and I had a hard time, but there's a lot of people who have much harder times. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. There's something about that, kid, you must feel it too, where you look back at the child, you were, just the incredible innocence. And what is it that creates a loss of innocence?

Safety.

Yeah. So, but in college you start acting. That's where we give it another shot. You study theater and literature. And then do you move immediately to LA.

We went to Houston to make money, construction. Me and my buddy Clint.

Who I just met.

No, that was Frankie. Oh shit, okay. By the way, I was working construction with Frankie and Clint. But Clint went to Hanover College. During that time, he ended up saying, okay, I'm auditioning for Juilliard.

And he got in and did he have a career?

He did quite well. He did two years, but then he left to do a Broadway play, which he did for a year and a half.

Okay, yeah, that's huge.

Which, by the way, was Big River. He played Huck Finn.

Oh, no kidding.

And wait, who was the lead? He was in Shenandoah. Well, shoot. Anyway, nevermind.

I forget. How did you know that?

I was around, what year was that?

That was about 84.

Yeah, you graduate in 83.

Well, I did 17 jobs in a year.

17?

But mostly, I'm gonna be a restaurant because I got no skill. And they're like, you gotta go clean up. Someone threw up on table 10.. And I'm like.

Tell them to fuck off.

You go clean it up. I'm the guy who drew up to clean it up. Why would I clean it up? Okay, you're fired. You know, that kind of thing.

So when you auditioned for Cheers, it's already been out for a couple years.

It had three seasons.

Yeah, had you seen it?

I hadn't seen it. When I went to college, I was a TV addict prior. So don't take this personally. And so when I went to college, I just got completely away from television, never watched it. I kind of broke that addiction.

No kidding, he just was doing you a solid. Oh, it was called Woody before you arrived. Yeah, and he was from Indiana,

which is where we went to college. The only thing that I asked them to change, and they did, was the name was something like Podunk, I forget, Indiana. And I said, can you make it Hanover?

After the college.

And they were like, yeah, but that sounds a little too. Lofty. Yeah, yeah, and yet they were finally like, okay, we'll do it.

So, was it easy for you to get that audition? Your friend calls and goes, you should read for this. Did you have an agent and everything at that point?

Yeah, I had an agent.

And what was your dream at that moment in time?

I didn't want to do television. I had in my mind, I wanted to do Broadway. And I was going to do Broadway, because the guys I was understudying got fired, because they were horsing around on stage with Matthew Broderick and a friend of Neil Simon's happened to be in the audience. Of course, they didn't fire Matthew Broderick, but they were getting rid of those other two guys. And when could I come in and take over one of the roles?

Yeah, that's a great way to audition, when you just do not want it. It really is. If you could trick yourself every time to every audition to go like, I absolutely don't want this, let's go.

That was lucky. So then I did the audition and Laurie opened. She was like, come with me. You know, and she took me into the room with all those guys, with Jimmy and the Charles brothers. But it seemed to me to be more labyrinthine than it probably was.

Do you think they thought it was a choice?

They pretty much decided on this other guy. You read with them.

Oh, I did. I do remember him vaguely.

So then they came to networks. It was between me and this other guy. And I just remember Teddy came in and he had some kind of, I don't know if he had a Coke or whatever. It was something from Fast Food Place with the straw. And he just relaxed as could be.

Well, TV had gotten better in your hiatus. Right, right. Cheers dons a whole new genre.

Taxi Cheers, yeah.

It starts a new paradigm, which you had missed, the transition.

And then Teddy actually helped me, because Jimmy or someone was like, I don't know if he's too tough, kind of. And you were like, no, that's what makes it interesting.

I vaguely remember that.

You did, because they just weren't sure. if I was too, you know.

Well, they were seeing the same thing. the bullies on the playground were, like, this guy's mad-dogging me. What the fuck's on, what's this? look on this guy's face?

That's the contradiction of Woody. that makes, to me, you absolutely fascinating. Because we were all like 37, 38, and he was 24, 25.. So as soon as he came in Monday morning, we'd all go, come here, tell us what happened. Tell us your weekend.

Sure, sure, sure. Kind of.

Yeah, yeah. He's more of a redneck gearhead. Yeah.

Sure, sure, sure.

No, but it's the same thing on face value.

But he does have the, yeah. Yeah, there's intimidation.

The sentimental, poetic soul underneath.

An intimidating facade.

Give me a big motor.

This is all artifice, how about that?

So's mine. Well, it's all artifice.

I would have loved to have just hugged everyone I met. But that didn't seem in the cards. So I went the other direction.

And I discovered early on that if I said, hey, it's me, Ted, one of the girls. Let's take our clothes off. It worked. Yeah. So I went that route.

There's no going back.

You do, you get some validation early on and then you just sort of steamroll in that direction.

You run with that, yeah. 1000%.

But did you get in a lot of fights? Yeah.

You had violent family relatives around?

Yeah, stepdads. Violent town. I didn't have a dad around. I was like, how does one prove they're a man? You do this.

Yes, no question.

And I'll die. I don't really give a fuck. I'll just be the guy that's like, stops here today and I don't really care the outcome. It won't happen on my watch.

That's how I could never work with a guy like, what's his name? Mike, what's the guy who's always so cruel to the crew?

There's several of them.

Okay, yeah.

Mike, we're gonna work on this.

Yeah, I'm dying to know. The only Mike I can think of is Nichols. I'm like, I don't think that was his name.

What's his name? He does...

Oh, Michael Mann?

Michael Mann would be one. Yeah.

He doesn't have the greatest rep.

I heard he's terrible to the crew. But there's another, Michael Bay.

Oh, sure, sure. There's some stories.

You know what? Let me jump in here with Mary. Mary's, one of you guys. She won't stand for a bully. You can fuck with her, maybe.

Yes.

For real. I mean, directors have tested her and she will smack down Oliver Stone in front of everybody else.

Good for her.

Because Oliver said something nasty about me. Right. Testing her. It's usually about testing. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the thing with bullies. A friend of mine, his daughter, was being bullied and he wanted me to talk to her, and I didn't talk to her. The reason I didn't, it's because I would have told her the only way to deal with a bully is to punch him in the nose, or her in this case.

I found that if you say squirrel.

And run.

And point elsewhere. And then run.

And confuse them.

No, you don't have to run. You just confuse the shit out of them. Yeah, they're not known for their brilliance.

You can also nice them to death too. I would pick out the nastiest people sometimes, smacks of cowardice or not wanting to get punched or something, but I'd make them laugh.

Yeah.

I know. No, no, no, no. There's a downside to it.

No, there isn't. Listen, I'm not advocating for how I have gone through life. In fact, Kristen said something to me that was the most poignant thing that's ever been said to me. Because in my story about myself, I'm gonna confront the bully to protect everyone else. And I think what people love about me is they feel protected by me.

Yeah, but now the way you put it makes me realize it a little more. But if you feel like someone's, you know, it's very difficult to not do something.

It is. I think it's like maybe the hardest thing to resist.

But also you said you're a mama's boy and you are a mama's boy.

Yeah, mom was getting hit. So when I was a kid, I was like, soon as I'm big enough, this will never happen again when I'm around.

You finally took him on, I imagine.

I was too little. He was out of the picture by the time he was seven. But when you're watching that and you can't do anything to protect mom, you're like, you're fucking a coward and you should be doing something. So that just starts this thing where like, well, the second, I'm big enough, that's not gonna happen again. Because the amount of shame and regret for not protecting her was so much more painful than any broken nose would ever be.

We're all soaking that up because I have experienced shame. It's the worst. The worst.

Nothing hurts as bad as the beating you can give yourself.

Thank God I handled this mini situation between me and Woody last night. With the photo. I'd be sitting here in shame.

Right? Yeah. And you'd be abusing yourself and flagellating.

What a dark light to get saturated in. Shame.

Shame's a tough one.

It is. It's the darkest one.

Another tough one is guilt. Guilt, just fries your circuits.

See, I go to the bathroom in the morning out of guilt. I eat out of guilt.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

So really quick, I can totally see how, being 38 and having a 24 year old, especially Woody, and not just any old 24 year old, like a guy who's wandering around the city and getting into some shit, would be endlessly fascinating and fun.

Oh my God. First, we tried to beat him. I've told this a hundred times, but we'd take him out on the basketball court. He kicked our ass and we fancied ourselves good.

Yeah, you were actually a very good basketball player in your youth.

No, I was a very medium basketball player, but I loved it with a passion. Nowhere near as good as Woody.

Didn't? we just agree that there's no more self-deprecation?

No, but it's true. Okay. All right, here's the truth. Basketball championship in our league at Kent School for Boys, 300 boys. So a school of 1200, like normal high schools, would have killed us.

Where's the acting buddy? auditioning?

No, but he was a rower. He went on to crew and he was happy.

So Woody, every time you guys would try to dominate him- And he would just kill us.

Even chess, motherfucker.

He would kick my ass in chess.

You know, I thought, okay, no more physical stuff. It hurts. You're right. He's hurting us.

He's got age on his side.

So, but what it did was it made you want to, because you're also loving him, you want to beat him at something, or you want to just prank him to death. So anything that came our way, you wouldn't aim it at anyone else. It would be a wasted shot. You'd wait for Woody.

Were you aware of any of that at that age?

More. so after Teddy told me, but he's always up front about these things. He's always saying, yeah, I'm gonna beat you at this or that. But then he did get me really good when, where he pants me in front of- Oh, wow.

Because, Monica, you'll understand this, because he was clearly wearing sweatpants or sweat shorts even, and no underwear, which we found highly annoying and silly.

Yeah, that was a look at a time.

And this was purposeful. In the script, we were rehearsing and there was a full audience by then, because we were famous and people came to watch us rehearse. Woody's character steps on a chair and up on a table to make a huge announcement. And I'm sitting right there. So his jockless self was right at eye level.

They can't ever get better.

There's no funner job ever, I think. It's impossible. It was a playground every day with the funniest people you ever met telling you all kinds of hysterical shit.

The writing was brilliant. And then you had a director, Jimmy Burroughs, who was so able to embrace as much insanity, as long as you showed up, when the cameras are rolling in front of the audience, he lets you do or be anywhere.

Don't you think that's his confidence? A lesser man would have been threatened.

Writers who came later on to the writing staff would be, wait, what the fuck? How do we know this is gonna work? They haven't said my lines once. And he'd go, relax, they're there. It'll be fine.

Right, he knew.

He knew.

Wait, I wanna say something really quick. This is super interesting, what Teddy just said that everyone on set was like, we wanna get him, kind of, right? Because he has all these things going for him and he's beating us. It's kind of exactly what you're talking about. when you first moved schools.

But in this case, it was kind of fun. And I was always trying to get them to. Well, you are competitive.

People say you're one of the most competitive people they know. And it works for me because I love to compete, but I don't really care. I only compete with people who I know will kick my ass. Sometimes, if there's not a man around to compete with, I'll compete with a woman. For some reason, I don't like the idea of having to win or lose be part of my day.

Is that dad? Is that tall poppy syndrome? Why would it be wrong for you to shine and to be number one?

Well, first off, I do shine and I am number one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Now we're talking.

I mean, finally. Yeah. I'm Sam Malone, mother fucker. I have to go now.

I feel really ashamed.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I got to be embraced by, and you would, in essence, say to me, it's gonna be okay, because I'm not gonna really kill you, but we're gonna take it to the edge. And I got to experience that, which is part of being man. Yeah, he's one of three boys. Yeah, and I didn't get that. So I think that's one of the many reasons I adore you, Woody.

Yeah.

I adore you, Teddy. And you, you have this very similar thing.

Don't lump him into my single dude. No, no. I'm so flattered.

I just mean a younger version of you, Woody.

Ah, 14 years younger, Woody.

I understand your reservation, but I'm like a pig in shit that you've just called us the same. I'm flattered to no end.

They're a big similarity.

What was the experience, Woody, from aiming at Broadway to, and for the history of the show, first, three years are good, they're climbing in the ratings, but then you arrive season four, and it really has a huge bump. It takes off, and then season five, it's the number one show, and it's like apex ratings. You had to have the light switch experience, where it's like total anonymity, and then 40 plus million people that week see you and learn your real name.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. That was a wild transition from poor and anonymous to, well, I wouldn't say rich, but, you know, famous. Relative to what I was. Yes.

For sure. You could buy a Corvette.

Yeah. Well, I had a Porsche and then a Corvette.

Which one got carjacked?

The Porsche.

Oh, good, he had good taste.

It didn't actually get carjacked. He wanted my keys. I was thinking that as I drove here, because I went past Bronson and Franklin, and, yeah, the guy put a gun to my head, and he's like, give me the keys. I couldn't find them. He's like, give me the fucking keys.

I don't, I can't, I don't know where they are.

I'm counting them. Is that true?

Did you not know? Yeah, and he counted to five.

Oh, fuck me.

And I'm thinking, you don't know. Is he going to pull the trigger? He sounds pretty convincing. And then, luckily, the person I was waiting for, this is like two in the morning, this gal had gone in to get something in her building there at Bronson and Franklin. The door opens of her finally coming out, and he just looked and ran.

Oh, thank God.

Thank God, because he was like on four. Oh. Not that he would have pulled the trigger, you know, I'm sure it was a bluff. Or not, you feel the muzzle against your head.

You have to assume the worst, let's just say that.

You'd be really stupid, not to assume the worst.

Yes, yes. Oh, this is great, though. You're 25, and you got a Porsche, and you're on the show.

24.

You got the Porsche first year.

I got it just before I started the show.

I'll get you another one.

I was actually 23.

Wildcats. That's right. Yeah. First movie?

Wow. He's researched.

Hey, by the way, you do your own research, don't you? You don't have a research team. Pretty cool.

Something to be said for that.

Something to be said for that.

Well, that was gonna be one of my questions when we got to the podcast. We're almost there, I'm still curious, were you the type that when it happened, it was a party, or was it discombobulating, or was it all the things at once?

Yeah, it was definitely a party. Yeah. But I didn't stop to think about whatever the deeper ramifications of what is fame, and do. I deserve it? I'm just like, I'm gonna lap this up, because who knew this would happen?

It happened to seven of you, or however many people. It's a very rare occurrence.

You also jumped into a pool. that was pretty cool in that. There were enough adults in the room that somebody would be an asshole one week, and all the rest of the cast, and we'd take turns being that asshole, would look at him like, wait, what? Don't do that. Your behavior was moderated by the good work.

Were you having any fears, Woody, if your sights were set on Broadway? As the show carries on, are you getting nervous that you're gonna be typecast as Woody?

Certainly, and back then, I think it was much more difficult because that was such a huge show, and we're so known for these parts. Like Fringe, it's weird to not get typecast. Even today, something pops huge, it's very hard. You wanna be able to get out from under any kind of typecasting, but yeah, it was, because I was on it six years before I got anything else.

Yeah, so I think the two things that are highly improbable in your life story is one, you get on that show, that's bonkers, and then two, and I don't know, was it hard to get White Man Can't Jump? Do you have to convince them that, no, I can play this street hustler guy?

I just remember when you first auditioned, it wasn't an audition like acting. It was, we're gonna meet down at this gym, and either you can play or you can't play. If you can't play, you're not in.

We don't need to hear you say any lines. Right.

First of all, I played a lot of basketball, and I'm like, oh, I am gonna shine today. Aha. I am gonna crush it, and I did.

You had to show that you had competition oozing from your veins, and you had both.

And savvy. You're the opposite of Woody on Cheers. Your character in White Man Can't Jump is conniving, and calculated, and smart, and street. smart, and savvy. You're not playing a dum-dum in that movie.

I might have been too dumb to realize that.

Yeah, yeah.

So it actually played in my favor, where I was supposed to do some commercial, which I'm glad I didn't do, but they canceled that.

That was a dangerous time.

A dangerous time. But I was supposed to do the thing in New Orleans, the Mardi Gras, and nope, canceled me from that.

You had an early round of canceling back at the beginning. Yes. Were you panicked at all by that? Were you scared? For a moment.

Yeah, I think. I think it landed.

People did say, you know, you don't need to, now people know your views, you don't need to.

Yeah, yeah, you made yourself clear. Everyone knows where you stand on the 91 war.

Oh, jeez.

When you were watching that happen, Ted, I can only compare the experience to, I was in a movie called Zathura, there were young actors, those young actors pretty promptly went on Kristen Stewart to just be this enormous star, and Josh Hutcherson went on to be in multiple franchises. Oh, you worked with Josh Hutcherson on all the Hunger Games.

Love Josh.

I have this immense pride and happiness for them. I didn't experience any jealousy. What was your reaction to him? breaking out in a way that you knew he was probably getting himself out of being typecast, and you yourself had to have been wrestling with the notion of being typecast at that time?

I have same reaction with unspoken competition, but what happens to me is, because I, by then, love him wholeheartedly. Yeah. I think it's more of checking myself, going, oh, wait a minute, Teddy, where are you? It's not envy. Envy means if you can't have it,