524: Where is Matavén? Community Tourism in Colombia's distant Orinoco Region

So I read that out to give you a sneak peek, because there are essays such as that in the book. There are contributed essays, and of course, it is a book that details the history, the politics, society, and so on about Colombia. So look up on Amazon. It's Colombia at a Crossroads, a historical and social biography by yours truly. It will be printed soon here in Colombia and hopefully then out into the world beyond Colombia and, of course, in bookstores.

Talking about bookstores, we are sourcing now bookshops in Australia. I mentioned this last week, but we are sourcing bookshops in Australia because Barry Maxwills, the author of Better Than Cocaine, Learning to Grow Coffee and Live in Colombia, will be in Australia in September. Date to be announced, but we know that he will be in Australia in September in both Sydney and Melbourne, and we're going to try and get a couple of readings there and a couple of books, a few books, more than a few books, into a couple of bookstores, and hopefully you, the listener in Australia, can stop by and support our fledgling editorial company Fuller, Vigil Runout of Bogota and, of course, I guess, Mon Poz. So this week's episode, this week's episode, is, well, we bring to you the Colombian Project. Now, the Colombian Project is a travel agency based headquarters in Cali, but offices over the country, and they do a number of incredible, incredible, different travel itineraries around the country, not least the obvious ones, but this week we're going to talk about something and somewhere that really I had no idea where it was located, where it is located, and it's called Mata Ven, and it's in Vichada.

Now, Vichada borders Venezuela. It's one of the least populated departments in Colombia, and product manager of the Colombian Project, Camilo Ortega, will be talking to us about Mata Ven and how they have made a special, I would say, culturally and environmentally secure destination for obviously low numbers of tourism, sort of ethno-cultural opportunity to go out to Mata Ven and be entirely immersed with the Piarroa indigenous community, but also understand their culture, understand their livelihoods and lifestyles, but again, this is not for mass tourism. It's very much low-key, low-impact. You have to fly into Puerto Enrida, which, of course, is in the neighboring.

department of Guainia, because it's closer to that side, because if you went to Puerto Carreño in Vichada, it'd be hours and hours and hours and hours away, so we talk about Mata Ven and why it's so special, and what is out there, and why people should visit. Of course, the discerning person looking for something a bit more adventurous, a bit more original and definitely experiential, so that's why we talk about it. Colombia has too much to offer. Of course, you have to go to the obvious places, but if you have a bit more time, if you're a bit more discerning, this really could be a destination for you, so I thoroughly enjoyed putting this interview together, thoroughly enjoyed learning about a part of Colombia I know nothing about, and I think you too will enjoy it as well. We've also recorded already for next week, we've got author David Arrowsmith.

Sounds about as English as he comes, but he's actually half-Colombian and related to certain politicians, but that's not the story here. He's the author of Narcoball, Love, Death and Football in Escobar's, Colombia. It's out. It's been out since early June. It's a book that kind of takes on football or soccer and the politics and the reality surrounding Pablo Escobar at that time.

Interesting for those who like true crime, maybe football, international football, want to learn a little bit more about Colombia. It's a book with that in mind, and that will be next week, and I think you'll enjoy that one too, because David speaks so very well about the topic. So I will leave you now in the capable hands of Emily Hart with the Colombia Briefing. Remember, you can support us at www.patreon.com forward slash, Colombia Calling. Of course, check out Emily's substack.

It's easy to do. Just put Emily Hart's substack in to Google and that will come up. And now over to some words from our sponsors and back with the Colombia Briefing. Don't go away.

The Colombia Calling podcast is sponsored by Latin News, a leading source of political and economic analysis on Latin America and the Caribbean since 1967. Their flagship publication, the Latin American Weekly Report, provides a behind-the-scenes briefing on all the week's key developments throughout the region. Sign up for a 14-day free trial at latinnews.com. We are also sponsored by BNB Colombia Tours, which is a leading tour operator providing a wonderful range of exclusive small group shared tours for those over 50, along with customizable private tours to both popular and off-the-map destinations throughout this beautiful and diverse country. If you are interested in experiencing one of their unforgettable journeys through Colombia, be it a shared tour with like-minded travellers or creating a unique private package of your own, just complete the form on the Colombia Calling website, that's www.colombiacalling.co, or the BNB Colombia Tours website, that's www.bnbcolombia.com.

And they'll be in touch within 24 hours to answer all of your questions and to start the planning of your exclusive Colombian adventure. So that's bnbcolombia.com and latinnews.com. Thank you for supporting our sponsors.

These can carry up to 4kg of explosives across distances of up to 15km. Drones are also being employed for surveillance purposes to identify approaching security units.

The US Embassy's Counter-Narcotics and Law Enforcement section has announced that they will support Colombian security forces to counter these attacks. And in other conflict news, a new set of peace negotiations have officially begun. On Monday of this week in Caracas, Venezuela, the government began talks with the Segunda Marquetalia, a FARC dissident group commanded by alias Ivan Marquez. This week, an agenda is to be set, along with measures to de-escalate ongoing conflict involving the guerrilla group. The Segunda Marquetalia group dates back to 2019..

Ivan Marquez had been the chief negotiator in the FARC's peace talks with the government leading up to the 2016 Accords, but announced a return to arms due to unfulfilled promises, thus abandoning the deal and the transitional justice system. The group now has more than 1,000 combatants. Controversy this week in Sincelejo, Sucre, as Mayor Yair Acuna hired armed motorbike riders dressed in black to guard the city's parks 24 hours a day. The mayor implemented the policy without any announcement, causing concern among residents, who found a private security team of around 100 men patrolling the city. Since taking office in January, Acuna's major focus has been tackling security issues.

In 2023, the department had the country's second-highest homicide rate, with more than 50 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. This was in part due to an urban war between the Clan del Golfo and local gang the Norteños. The national government expressed concerns that this is a return to Colombia's paramilitary era in a region which was gravely affected by that phenomenon. Defence Minister Iván Velásquez demanded that the new privately hired security team be dismantled. Acuna, who has been repeatedly accused of links with paramilitary groups, said he would not reverse the policy.

And at the very end of the second year of government's four-year legislative term, the labour reform has been saved, though the bill still has several debates to pass before it will become law. The labour reform has already had to shed the union and strike rights included in the original draft, though the bill, as it stands, does increase paternity leave from two to six weeks and strengthens labour guarantees for campesinos and agricultural workers, who are often in the informal sector. The bill also made progress in regulating the working conditions of digital platforms such as Rappi and Uber. The salvaging of this reform bill follows the passing of the pension reform but collapse of both the education and health reforms, though the government has announced plans to repropose the latter two in the next legislative period. The reproposal of reforms may, however, face extra challenges in the second half of Petro's mandate.

In Colombia, during the third year, it is often difficult for governments to get their bills passed as elections approach. The Conservative Party has also announced that the next president of the Senate will be Efrain Cepeda, one of the government's biggest opponents. It is furthermore likely that the vice-president of the Senate will be the hard-right Uribista senator Paloma Valencia. In environmental news, two projects designed to battle climate change have been postponed in Congress this week. A bill proposing to trace livestock sale in attempts to reduce ranching-related deforestation, which had the support of environmentalist blocs and actor Leonardo DiCaprio, missed the deadline for debate this week.

If it is to be revived, its passage through the legislature will have to start from scratch. The other project, an anti-fracking bill, did not make the agenda either. This is the fourth anti-fracking project to be proposed during this period, though the government announced plans to repropose the bill in the next. Colombia has been ranked 57th of 67 in the World Competitiveness Ranking, produced by the Institute of Management Development. The study measures economic performance and governmental, business and infrastructure efficiency.

Colombia is up one place from last year. At the top of the list was Singapore, followed by Switzerland and Denmark. Many of the countries nearer to the bottom of the list are in Latin America. Brazil is now at 62nd place, Peru at 63rd, Argentina at 66th, and Venezuela at the bottom of the rankings at 67th. However, Colombia's economy grew 5.5% between last April and April of this year, exceeding market expectations and with strong growth in sectors like agriculture, mining and oil.

Meanwhile, the cost of living continues to rise, with huge price hikes in basic products like tomatoes, whose price has risen more than 40% this year, and potatoes, whose price has risen more than 35%. These rises are due to shortages after droughts at the end of 2023..

Congress approved last week, on Thursday, a request from the government to increase the debt ceiling to $17.

6 billion in order to finance its development plans and pay its debts. The government has also said it will cut spending this year by $5 billion.

Meanwhile, Foreign Minister Luis Gilberto Murillo has confirmed the impending arrival of 50 children from Palestine, coming to Colombia as part of a medical care programme for child victims of Israel's assault on Gaza. The children are currently waiting in Egypt with their families, and will spend six months in Colombia. Those were your headlines for this week. Thanks for listening. And if you value these updates or want them direct to your email or WhatsApp as audio and text every Monday, you can subscribe to the Colombia Briefing.

Just sign up to my Substack at substack.

com forward slash at e-h-a-r-t, or you can sign up on the Colombia Calling Patreon site. That's all from me. Have a great week.

He's the product manager for the Colombian Project Agency. He's been working there for nine years. And I think the importance of this episode is to show you that Colombia has so much more out there. I mean, many of you know this, of course, but has so much more out there to offer. Obviously, you need to visit Cartagena.

Obviously, you need to go to the beaches of Santa Marta, the graffiti tours in Bogota, and so on and so forth. Urban renovation, regeneration in Medellin, if that takes your fancy. But at the same time, Colombia really is the sleeping giant of ecotourism. And ethnotourism. And that's why we're talking to Camilo Ortega of the Colombian Project this week.

We want to talk about things that really push the envelope when it comes to tourism and travel in Colombia. So, Camilo, welcome on the Colombia Calling podcast.

And your boss, Brian Murphy O'Neill, has been on five times or more. He often calls me up and says, I'd like to just record a big chat. Let's just chat about Colombia, Richard. And you know, Brian, he knows how to talk.

And I believe the reservation is called Mata Ven. So perhaps you could give us a little bit of an overview. What is this?

The reservation is very close to the Venezuela border, which is basically the Orinoco river. It's about two million hectares. in the reservation. There are six different indigenous tribes.

Many, many different communities. And around 16,000 indigenous live there. Wow. Maybe a little bit more. And we work very close with three different communities.

Or yeah, with three communities. La Urbana, Pueblo Nuevo, and Piedra Pintada. They are right at the entrance of Mata Ven river, which is one of the main tributes to the Orinoco river.

So yeah, and basically, to arrive there, you have to arrive to Mata Ven. It's almost in the border between Guainia and Bichada. So to Guainia Department. So to arrive there, it's easier to fly to Inidia, rather than to Bichada, because it's closer.

You go north, but that's going down in the river. First, Inidia River. The Inidia River goes into the Guaviare River. And then Guaviare River joins the Orinoco River and the Atavapu River. And they create the fluvial star of Inidia, which is one of the main, like, important places to support biodiversity.

It's a Ramsar site in Colombia.

And yes, it's a confluence of three important rivers. And from there, you take Orinoco River for about two more hours. And then you enter to Mataben River, which is where all of these communities are located.

how do you call it in English? Humedales? Wetlands?

if it's summer months and the river is low?

So, yeah, so low. So it takes a little bit longer when it's, like, the flooded season, which we can talk a little bit more, a little bit further.

When the flooded season or when the river is very, very, very high, it takes, on the Mataben River, it takes maybe 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes to arrive to the community. But when the river is very, very low, it takes maybe 30 minutes because they have to stop. They have to walk. They have to push the boat or, yeah, or maybe, basically, they have to row.

So when the river is very low, you can see beaches around the river. In the turns of the river, these beaches appear and it's white sand, which is really, really, really beautiful. I mean, the landscape is incredible. And you can have like a beach day in these waters, which are, it's amazing. And the river is very calm.

The Matavene River is very calm. You can stay, you can have a beautiful day there.

And one of the amazing things during the dry season is that there are a few petroglyphs all over, like all over the Matavene River, which you can see only when the river is low. But because when the river gets high, they get like, they're flooded and you cannot, they get under the water. So you can see them only during the dry season. And it's like a hidden mystery, like something that you only can imagine during the flooded season, which is one of the secrets of Matavene, no? And during the flooded season is a completely different landscape.

I love it, because the thing is that the water goes up, probably, I don't know, 10, between 10 or 15 meters up. See, it's very, it's very, very, like, very different. So, of course, no beaches, but the water goes up to the canopy of the trees. So, basically, the activities that you do in the dry season, basically you in the dry season, you can hike through the jungle. This hike, many of these hikes, you do them rowing on a canoe during the flooded season.

And it's like you are, like you are rowing, like on the canopy of the trees, like you're flying. And the landscape is something from another world. Before I get there for the first time, I couldn't imagine. And it was funny because the first time I went, it was dry season and we were walking through a savanna. And one of the indigenous I was walking with, like the river was very far because it was dry season.

And one of the indigenous I was walking with, he looked at one of the trees and there was like a seed in one of these trees. And he said, this type of seed is one of the favorites for the fish here. And I was looking around and everything was like a savanna. What do you mean a fish? They fly?

Where are the fish here? I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine. And then when I went there, in the flooded season, all these savanna exploded. So that's how they get to this type of season.

It's amazing.

I love that. I'm not allowed to go as much as I would like to because I'm now a family man and so on. So one of the big things before we get into the Indigenous cultures and everything else and the nature, because it sounds absolutely incredible. But one of the things is, do you have age limits on? if I wanted to come with my family?

How young is the youngest traveler I can bring? Because one of the big things in Colombia is traveling with children.

Basically, you can do many activities there. I'm pretty sure there are many water activities where kids can enjoy a lot. As long as they have a life jacket, that's really, really important. But other than that, the water is very calm. It's very safe.

There are no dangerous animals in the river or something like that.

There are many, many kids in the community. So they will have kids to play. In the community, it's very safe. They play soccer. They play volleyball.

They play very difficult games from there, like some sort of volleyball that they play with a different type of thing.

So kids will enjoy it for sure. And it will be also a great experience for kids that are not used to maybe the wilderness or maybe the jungle. Or maybe so they can see. In Colombia, when I was a kid, they only teach us about the indigenous, that, the pre-Colombian tribes that existed before the Spanish. So they never teach us about that.

We had over 100 different indigenous tribes in Colombia, over 100 different indigenous languages. I had no idea. In school, they never teach us that. They only teach us about the Muiscas, about, I don't know, the Taironas. But never the current indigenous communities.

I don't know how it is right now. But I think it's important for every kid to know that there are different ways of living in the same country. And the importance of learning about these different cultures and about these different ways of living. Not all living is like the way we live in the city. So I think it's important also for kids to start being used to other ways of living.

But so what are the indigenous groups? Because you said there were lots. But in this particular project, I would say, you are close to a few indigenous reservations. Which are the closest ones?

They are a really organized tribe. They are really organized people. There are six different tribes in this reservation. But we only work with Piaroa. There are many, many.

Basically, we are the territory of these three communities. I think it's about 10,000 hectares. Out of the two million hectares of this huge reservation. So we only work with them.

And no, it's great. It's great. We work in partnership with them. And with another NGO that is called Ethno Llano. Which, basically, they gave us like the entrance to Mataben.

Because Ethno Llano has been working in this region for about 40 years already. And they work basically in ensuring the well-being of these indigenous communities. So they work in child nutrition. They work in health, gender equality.

Yeah, different type of things. So they ensure like a base of well-being. And ensuring the well-being of the communities. We can now think in economic alternatives. Such as tourism.

Such as other activities. And we can be sure that if we take visitors to this region. They are going to be well-treated.

Yeah, the service is going to be great. You are going to see healthy people. You are going to see, yeah, a good base of well-being. So it's not going to be like, oh, we're going to be people that are poor. Or people that doesn't have anything to eat.

No, it's like they have everything covered. And yeah, they can start thinking tourism is not the only thing. Actually, when we started working there. They were very emphatic in saying that they don't want to rely only in tourism. Or only in any type of activity.

Especially because we were coming out of the pandemic. And everybody saw that when you rely only in tourism. And a pandemic or something like that comes. You are screwed. So basically, they wanted to start working in tourism.

Because they wanted tourism to add to the cultural heritage. And to help them conserve or protect the forest. Through an activity that is aligned with their worldview. The Piaroa, they call themselves the protectors of the forest. So they have a really way of thinking of.

We have to protect our territory. We live from the forest. So we have to protect it. And so they need to get into different economies that are aligned with this type of thinking. So tourism helps a lot.

Because through tourism, they can teach the younger generations their cultural heritage. They are going to see the value in that. Because they have to show their heritage to the visitors. So it's not only learning because of learning. It's learning because I'm going to be proud of showing it to someone else.

Because people are interested.

And also the same with the territory. And with the nature and everything around. Because people are going to ask what type of tree it is. What is it good for? What do you use it for?

What type of bird is that one? What type of whatever is that? Why do you dress like this? Or why do you talk like this? So they are going to start learning about that.

And it's going to add to their heritage in general. So they were very inviting.

So the interaction then that the visitor has with the Piaroa people. So the Piaroa will be the guides. They'll be involved in everything. But what other kind of interaction? Do you get to visit the community?

Do you participate in, I don't know, a roundtable to hear about their culture and beliefs?

So this is basically an alliance. This is not like, it's not like the way we are going there to help them or whatever, or teach them anything. It's like an alliance of working three organizations together and create, like a tourism product and a tourism initiative. So the main objective was to empower them so they could operate their own destination. We want, as a Colombian project, we don't want to be like an exclusive operator of this territory or exclusive operator of Mata Bend.

No, we want to, of course, we like to offer the destination, but we want everyone to work with them. And now we can say that they can operate their own destination. They can receive their own visitors. They don't have to rely necessarily on us or on anyone, just to have access to different markets, but not to operate. And that was our main goal.

It's their destination, it's their product, it's not ours. So, and we were, thankfully, we were able to do that. So when the visitors go there, all the interaction is with them. Everything. They are the guides.

You are at the moment, at the moment, you are staying in the community. They build like a small guest house, you can say, where you stay there, either in hammocks or tents. But it's really, really, really comfortable because, of course, it's covered. You're covered from rain. It's very, very beautiful.

And the tents and the hammocks are new and really comfortable. For example, the tents, they have mattresses, they have sheets, they have pillows. It's nice, very comfortable, really.

And at the moment, it's like that because they are building a lodge. And it's going to be like, we are trying to guide them a little bit. So, and I say we because I feel part of this community already. But we are trying to build maybe a three or four level jungle lodge. But that's going to take a little bit long.

It's going to take a while because it takes money and time. But at the moment, the accommodation is in the community. So you are all the time sharing with them. All the activities is with them. It's really nice because to all the activities, it's not like you are going with one guide.

They like to go, they like to join. So to every activity, you are going, maybe with, I don't know, four or five people for the community, with kids. Sometimes the leaders join. So it's like, really, you feel like you are part of the community. You can ask them anything.

They are really like happy people, very charming. They laugh all the time of anything you say. No, it's like going there, is like being in heaven. So it's amazing. It's really, and yeah, you are all the time.

They are very welcoming. at first. They are a little bit shy. Like when you arrive, they are. maybe the first day, they are a little bit shy.

And then you start like interacting with them. And it's just like a big family. And it's actually a big family because I'm going to tell you the story of this community. The leader that unfortunately passed away this year, the main leader.

And he had his wife. They were living in a different community or in a different part. And he said to her, let's go and let's open our, like, let's open to our own territory. Let's create our own place, our own territory. And she said, but I cannot go just with you.

I cannot leave my sister alone. So he said, let's come the three of us. And he had 20, 20 children, with the two, with the two women, 20, 20 children. And that's how the community was created. Basically, they started, of course, they started all of the, all of his sons and daughters, they start getting married with people from other communities.

And all of these, all of these, now they are like 150 people that they were all, they all came from this, from the same, from, yeah, from these three, from these three people. And so it is actually a huge family. And it's very, yeah, it's really, it's really beautiful to be with them.

Sometimes they have problems with communication. Sometimes they still have problems like, okay, I need to do a quote for someone. Can you help me? or whatever? So we have been involved since, since 2020..

And I, like we, we have always like this project in our minds. So we received like news of this grant in last year through the Adventure Travel Trade Association, which, which we are members, the ITTA. I got the newsletter and I opened it and I saw that there was this grant from the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund. And I read it and I said, this is perfect for, for Matalan. So I sent the application, but the thing is that to apply to the, to the grant, you have to be a member of the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund.

We are not members of the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund. But the ITTA is member of the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund. So I, I wrote to the ITTA and I asked them if we could present the, if we could present the project to them, they agree. And we did it to them. So of course, and we won it with other three initiatives all around the world.

But of course, we have to thank the Adventure Travel Conservation Fund, but we have to thank the ITTA as well, because they were the first that said, yes, we are going to support you. We are going to present, we are going to sponsor this project in the, in, the, in the, in the grant. And thankfully we got it. So this, this year, we, so we got it last year, but it was, it is to work through 2024.. And basically, we are just working in, in, in promotion and commercialization, commercialization activities.

We did one farm trip already at the beginning of the year in April, with a few Colombian agencies.

It went amazing. It went really, really amazing. And we took with us a crew of, of like a, like, how do you call it? Like a film crew. So we made, we made a video and we had a lot of, the video is going to be released probably in a couple of weeks.

And also we will share it with all of you. It's going to be really, really amazing. A promotional video of this paradise. And, and of course, we get a lot of, of material to start working in the social media. At the moment, there is no social media of MatavendeYu, but we are going to have a social media like this year.

Next trip is going to, so in this, in this first farm trip, we were.

like, we identified also like a few things that we need, we needed to strengthen. And that's what we're going to do in a, in a second trip in August, where we're going to work with a chef in, in, in, in gastronomy. We're going to work in birdwatching. We're going, we're going to bring an expert. We're going to bring also, I don't know if you've, if you have heard, like a lodge that is called La Manigua in La Macarena.

So the owner, the owner, is going with us. So he's going to give us, like, a complete feedback of what they are building there in Matavende. And we got different people. We are working in, in like, like creating a more strong like content for, for the activities we do. Yeah.

Things like that. So, so they are like, they are really good at the moment, but they cannot, like everyone in tourism can be, can be better every, every time. So we want, we want the moment. we have had, like a few, a few trips there. One of Colombians and one from a, with a couple of a couple from, from India.

They had a great, a great time there. But we are going to, hopefully we're going to have a fam trip with international companies in, in, in September. This is going to be in the, in the frame of ProColombia Nature Travel Mart. So we got a fam trip for this, for this event. And hopefully we're going to get, like a few international companies, to test, to test the destination with, yeah, with international and higher standards guests.

And we'll see how it goes. Hopefully it will go great.

Don't expect it to be, you know, the Copacabana Palace. But it's because you're going out to the wilderness in a way. But, you know, you obviously prepare your people, your, your guests, your travelers, as to what they're going into, you know, your clients. I have to ask, I mean, we're getting to the end of this conversation and you've been so informative, Camilo, but I have to ask, will travelers need to, you know, take malaria pills, have the yellow fever shots? Is there a problem with leishmaniasis?

I mean, you know, you are in the, you are in the wilds, and people do wonder about healthcare.

Yeah, no, I mean, if you want to take malaria pills or whatever, it's like, nothing is too much. But, but the only thing, and it's because they ask yellow fever at the entrance of the airport, but it's very, like, there's. no, there is no really problems with this type of diseases there.

Yeah, it's very, very calm, thankfully, no, because some, some parts of Colombia are not so easy to go. But here is, is amazing. It's actually close to same, same region of Cerros de Mavecure. So if you go to Cerros de Mavecure, you arrive also to an Irida, you have to take a different direction on the, on the, on the river, but like, it's the same type of ecosystem. also.

It's like a transition area between the eastern plains of Colombia and the Amazon jungle. So it's really special, really beautiful.

And so the entrance of Matavén river is like, like a small version of Mavecure. And of course, there is a high cap there, which is where you can see a huge part of Matavén jungle. You can see the Orinoco river. You can see the jungle in Venezuela and, very far away, the puyes and the stone hills of Venezuela, which are the highest. No, the landscape is something from another world.

It's amazing.

And I just, it sounds so incredible. You've got scenery, you've got the Eastern plains, you have like a type of jungle, you have the ethno culture, the rivers, the nature, the whole experience to me sounds so incredible. And only an hour and a half to Enrida, but transporting you to a different world. Different world.

So those are the 10 people that are going to be there at the, at the moment alone, no one else. So that's like a really, really like, it's a different type of luxury, no? Because.

And yeah, no. And if you, if you follow us in our social media, you're going to be informed, you're going to see the video that is going to be released in a couple of weeks. And, and if you pay attention to our website, there's going to be a section. And also we are going to be, as soon as we have the Mataben de U, social media is out there. You're going to, you're going for sure.

We're going to let everybody know that and they can go and visit their social media as well.

It has been a great conversation. I love talking about tourism in Colombia, that it's beyond the usual places, because Colombia has an embarrassment of riches and really could start to clean up in tourism terms. You know, when it comes to offering special destinations and I think in this day and age, more than sort of ticking boxes of where to go and what to do, we are looking, people are looking for more experiential, experiential, I don't want to say experiences, experiential destinations, and so this very much fills that requirement. Thank you for your time. Everybody, you check out the colombianproject.com or colombianproject.com online and you'll find Mataven, M-A-T-A-V-E-N, and that's where it is.

Of course, you can get in touch with me and I'll send you the links, but all of the links will be on our social media as well. I'll be looking out for the video when it comes out as well. I'll be sure to post it on our Facebook and Twitter accounts and wherever else. It's been a great conversation. Thank you so much for your time, Camilo Ortega, product manager of the Colombian Project.

Sign up for a 14-day free trial at latinnews.

com. We are also sponsored by BNB Columbia Tours, which is a leading tour operator providing a wonderful range of exclusive small group shared tours for those over 50, along with customizable private tours to both popular and off-the-map destinations throughout this beautiful and diverse country. If you're interested in experiencing one of their unforgettable journeys through Columbia, be it a shared tour with like-minded travelers or creating a unique private package of your own, just complete the form on the Columbia Calling website, that's www.columbiacalling.co or the BNB Columbia Tours website, that's www.bnbcolumbia.com and they'll be in touch within 24 hours to answer all of your questions and to start the planning of your exclusive Colombian adventure. So, that's bnbcolumbia.com and latinnews.com. Thank you for supporting our sponsors.