JD Vance: who is Donald Trump’s new vice-president?
2024-07-17 00:29:03
Every Friday, Guardian columnist and former Washington correspondent, Jonathan Freedland, invites experts to help analyse the latest in American politics. From politicians to journalists covering the White House and beyond, Jonathan and his guests give listeners behind the scenes access to how the American political machine works.
This is The Guardian.
In Norway, a woman's boyfriend forgets who she is. overnight. In Detroit, a man is arrested, but he was never at the crime scene. In Spain, disturbing pictures of young girls have appeared, and no one knows who's behind them. Something strange is happening.
A collision between people and artificial intelligence. Discover more in The Guardian's series, Black Box. Listen to the whole series right now, wherever you get your podcasts.
After a turbulent weekend in American politics in which Donald Trump survived an assassination attempt, all eyes turned to the Wisconsin city of Milwaukee and the Republican National Convention. President of the United States, please welcome Donald J. Trump.
And with the sound of the house band playing away,
a bandaged Donald Trump emerged to the crowd, ascended the stairs, and looked down upon the congregation, echoing his defiant pose of the weekend, chants of fight, fight, fight rang out.
But eyes were also on the man at Donald Trump's side, who'd been nominated earlier that day as his choice for vice president.
It is therefore my honor to nominate Ohio Senator J.
D. Vance for the office of vice president of the United States of America.
It was quite the journey for the 39-year-old senator, once a self-described never-Trumper, and now perhaps his most fierce supporter. What's behind this sudden shift in loyalty? Why did Donald Trump decide to pick him? And what is the story coming out of the Republican gathering in Wisconsin? I'm Jonathan Friedland, columnist at The Guardian, and this is Politics Weekly, American.
You know, I have to say, as someone who spent 27 years in the Republican Party and attended six RNCs, it is a little surreal. The last time I attended was in Cleveland in 2016.. And that felt like a funeral for me, because I could not believe that the Republican Party that I had dedicated over 20 years of my life to at that point was coronating someone as anathema to everything that the party claimed to believe, like Donald Trump.
Tara Setmair is a former Republican congressional communications director. I began by asking whether Saturday's shooting of Donald Trump had set the tone for the convention now gathering in Milwaukee.
Well, unfortunately, the tragedy of that event has forced people, I think, to really take a step back and look at the moment that we're in, the political violence that has potentially been massaged for quite some time in the era of Trump, unfortunately. And even though the worst possible outcome didn't happen, I mean, someone did lose their life, and that is awful. But Donald Trump survived. He wasn't seriously injured. And all of these calls for unity and reflection and Donald Trump becoming a changed man because he had a brush with death, and all of that sounds great on paper.
And of course, the Republicans are using it as some type to further the narrative that Donald Trump is somehow a divine figure that has been sent by God for them in this moment. God Almighty intervened because America is one nation under God, and he is certainly not finished with President Trump.
But unfortunately, they still cannot seem to get away from the more vitriolic attacks. And we, even though you see them trying using terms like unity and let's come together, they still slip in their divisive, MAGA attacks on things, including Donald Trump himself, if you look at his social media. He's incapable, incapable of unifying and not discussing things and using terms that are inflammatory. He's just not capable of it.
Yeah, I mean, all eyes on what he might say on Thursday night, early hours of Friday morning, our time here in the UK to see whether he does come up with this new, more sort of unifying tone. I'm like you. I'm very, very skeptical about it. But the key takeaway that we've seen, I think, so far is absolutely, as you say, this rallying around Donald Trump, lording him, as we talked about on the podcast when we did a special episode of The Weekend, lording him as an almost messianic figure, saying it was God who saved him, and so on, and massively unifying around him. I mean, there is no doubt, looking at the party gathering now in its convention in Milwaukee, that it is Donald Trump's party.
Without question. And frankly, it's been Donald Trump's party for quite some time. The Republicans attempted to run a primary, a competitive primary, and many of those candidates flamed out rather quickly, except for Nikki Haley, who we saw this week come full circle right back to supporting Donald Trump with a, you know, full-throated support.
My message to them is simple. You don't have to agree with Trump 100 percent of the time to vote for him.
Which I think for a lot of voters during the primary, who cast their votes in protest, Republican voters who cast their votes in protest of Donald Trump and voted for Nikki Haley, even when, after she had dropped out of the race in the primaries, was probably disappointing to see.
In a way, Tari, you've brought us to what is going to be our main focus in this episode. Because, yes, of note about this convention has been the degree of unity, the almost messianic fervor around Donald Trump, as if he is God's chosen envoy. And that's been proven by his surviving the would-be assassin's bullet at the weekend. But the main news that's come out of the convention, at least so far, has been his naming of J.D. Vance as his running mate.
Now, you were saying that he likes. Donald Trump, likes to take people who had previously criticized him and force them to go on bended knee and apologize. In a way, there is no more extreme example of that than J.D. Vance, the junior senator from Ohio, now nominated as the Republican candidate to be the vice president, if Donald Trump wins. Let's talk about him, because he's an intriguing and fascinating figure, all the way back to when he first appeared.
And the way his name first got known was back in 2016,, in that summer when Donald Trump was the, for the first time, the Republican nominee. He just published a book, a memoir, a story of his own life called Hillbilly Elegy. Just tell us about that book and why, in particular, it was acquired such kind of cultural importance and political importance in 2016..
So J.
D. Vance is an interesting study. And I think that there will be plenty of books written about people like him who come from the background he came from, which is the poor part of Appalachia in Ohio. And his experience and rising to now being a vice presidential candidate is it's pretty extraordinary. But the metamorphosis that he went through is also rather remarkable.
You know, Hillbilly Elegy gave a window into that part of the country and that part of American culture, of the lower white class in our country. And a lot of people at that moment didn't really understand why poor white folks would would relate to Donald Trump, who was this elitist billionaire. Vance does not support Donald Trump, but he understands why so many in these struggling.
communities seem drawn to him. Even though they recognize, I think, in a lot of ways that Trump is imperfect. They say, well, at least he's trying. At least he's diagnosing the problems. At least he recognizes the pain that we're feeling.
But it was fascinating for a lot of people because it was a study in a window into that subculture of America.
Yeah. And the J.D. Vance book was seen as almost a kind of handbook, too. And he was. Vance was seen as a sort of left behind whisperer that he understood this world of, as you say, the white working class from those shuttered post-industrial towns.
But in that period, even though Vance was seen as somebody who could explain, you know, Trump supporters to, in a way, the, you know, the mainstream media and so on, he himself was no fan of Donald Trump.
That's very true. And not only was he no fan of Donald Trump, he was one of, I call him one of the OGs of the beginnings of the Never Trump movement. Right.
There's a movement to sort of gloat over the fact that the elites were right about Donald Trump. Right. I've never liked this guy. I never liked him. And I've, but I've noticed this willingness from people who think a lot like I do.
Who were raising the alarm about Donald Trump from the very beginning. And the fact that, given his background, that he was so fervently against Donald Trump. I mean, there's reports about text messages between him and his college roommate where he said he didn't know if he was an a-hole or America's Hitler. And there's a litany of comments that he has made about Donald Trump that, of course, Democrats are using now. You've said, I've never, I'm a Never Trump guy.
Never liked him. Terrible candidate. Idiot, if you voted for him. Might be America's Hitler. Might be a cynical a-hole, cultural heroine, noxious and reprehensible.
I was wrong about Donald Trump. I didn't think he was going to be a good president. Brett, he was a great president.
Some Republicans inside the party, the MAGA Republicans, who are 100% committed to Donald Trump, were very skeptical of J.
D. Vance because of that history. As a matter of fact, Donald Trump himself, when J.D. ran for Senate in Ohio, he did not endorse him initially because of that history. And it took Vance's mentor and first boss, Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel, who infused $10 million into J.D.
Vance's Senate campaign to boost him because he was losing that primary.
But just, well, let's hear just a bit of how J.
D. Vance sought to present himself in that campaign in Ohio in 2022..
Are you a racist? Do you hate Mexicans? The media calls us racist for wanting to build Trump's wall. They censor us, but it doesn't change the truth.
Well, there's his campaign message. And by then, he's already positioning himself much, no longer than ever, Trump. In fact, if anything, presenting himself as somebody who has annoyed the liberal elites is not the darling of the liberal elites, which he had been when his book first came out, saying the media calls us racist for wanting to build Trump's wall. They censor us, but it doesn't change the truth. So it's quite a turn around.
I'm J.
D. Vance, and I approve this message because whatever they call us, we will put America first.
Yeah. He went so far as saying that he thought Donald Trump was the best president of his lifetime. It was very clear. he made a calculated decision to make that pivot because he knew that his political future hinged on the support of Donald Trump. And Trump took notice of that, obviously.
The New York Times did a fake story today, big front page, that J.
D. wasn't sure if he wanted my support. J.D. is kissing my ass. he wants my support.
This is a great person who I've really gotten to know. Yeah, he said some bad things about me, but that was before he knew me and then he fell in love.
So if he sees that you are willing to do just about anything to get his attention, that means he can manipulate you. He's got you around his finger. The other person who was also a big booster and benefactor of J.D. Vance is Tucker Carlson. And we all know that Tucker Carlson is very well entrenched inside Trump world, another close confidant and ally of Don Jr.
This week during the convention, we saw Tucker Carlson sitting in the presidential box there at the convention with the Trumps. And Tucker Carlson took a liking to J.D. Vance as well and was one of his biggest benefactors. And Donald Trump eventually came around with the needling of his son, Don Jr., who happens to have an affinity for J.D. Vance.
They're friends. He finally came around to endorse him. And that pushed him over the top.
I'm very pleased to introduce the man with by far the best chance to defeat the radical Democrat nominee for the U.
S. Senate. And you know what? You know what? He's a guy that said some bad shit about me.
And so until then, J.
D. Vance had been, as you say, in the venture capital world, sort of the protege of Peter Thiel. He was very involved in trying to get investment into, as we put it, fly over country, you know, included, created a capital fund that would include the possibility of investing in farmland. He had a Catholic prayer and meditation app. We should mention that J.D.
Vance is a convert to Catholicism. He pivots to politics pretty quickly with a view to running in that Senate campaign in 2022. In between, and I suspect this is important, particularly for Donald Trump, who was more not, you know, not such a big reader, but Hillbilly elegy, then became a movie starring Glenn Close and Amy Adams.
I know I could have done better, but you got to decide you want to be somebody or not.
I think that's put him probably even more on Donald Trump's radar. There's been lots of reporting that's emerged in recent days suggesting that part of what endeared J.D. Vance to Donald Trump was this brokering of the meeting. He goes to Mar-a-Lago, basically apologizes to Donald Trump and says, you know, I believed what the media said about you and I shouldn't. And Donald Trump liked that.
But he was held by the fact that he had, as you've been saying, these sort of patrons and backers, and they're drawn partly to Vance's intellectual worldview. And in terms of contemporary American politics, Vance is something of a thinker. Let's just talk about this worldview of his. Put it all together for us. What is the kind of worldview that we're speaking about here?
Yeah. One thing what we cannot deny is that J.D. Vance is very smart. He is a critical thinker, the complete opposite of Donald Trump in this respect. He graduated from Yale.
So he's not someone who doesn't think about things in depth. And I think that's part of the danger of someone like J.D. Vance. CNN referred to him as the political heir to MAGA, which I think is also another reason why Donald Trump picked him, because he can make very extremist views sound reasonable. And that's why it's even more important than ever that he is fact checked and that these views are illuminated to people.
So they understand where they're coming from. And J.D. Vance, you know, espousing this America first view on foreign policy, as I mentioned, is quite isolationist and quite friendly to Vladimir Putin's worldview, or Viktor Orban in Hungary, who has dismantled many of the democratic institutions in Hungary under the guise of democracy. These are all things that I think the American people need to find out and will as the campaign progresses. But they are really anathema to traditional Republican views, where the party was never isolationist this way.
And that world of scarcity is what I'm trying to get us all to wake up to. In that world of scarcity, we can't support Ukraine and the Middle East and contingencies in East Asia. It just doesn't make any sense. The math doesn't work out in terms of weapons manufacturing.
The idea that we would not support our allies in NATO or that we would give this level of deference to Vladimir Putin would be unthinkable. Not that many years ago, you know, Ronald Reagan is. Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave. Yes.
And probably has been for some time.
Yes. Another point that's important to point out about J.D. Vance is that he also said that he would not have certified the 2020 election if he had been vice president at the time.
That is the legitimate way to deal with an election that a lot of folks, including me, think had a lot of problems in 2020.
. I think that's what we should have done.
So it's very clear. you would have done what Donald Trump asked you to do there, not what Mike Pence did. You said that that's about the past.
Which I think was probably one of the final aspects of his turn toward Donald Trump and his worldview that solidified his support. That's very dangerous, if you think about that, because that means that he would not have honored the Constitution, that it's one of the most important constitutional duties of the vice president. And the fact that he said that he would not have followed through with that is very alarming. And the American people should be well aware of that.
Yes, indeed, that he was ready to do what Mike Pence was not prepared to do.
That's right. Something the American voter really needs to consider going into November.
Just to be local about this. for a minute, he did, J.D. Vance, make some news here in Britain with a joke that he delivered, or maybe more than the joke, at the expense of the new Labour government in this country. Let's just hear that.
One of the big dangers in the world, of course, is nuclear proliferation, though, of course, the Biden administration doesn't care about it. And I was talking about what is the first truly Islamist country that will get a nuclear weapon? And we were like, maybe it's Iran, maybe Pakistan already kind of counts. And then we sort of finally decided maybe it's actually the UK, since Labour just took over.
But.
But people notice that because, again, Republicans of the old school didn't used to make jokes about Britain, one of its most staunch allies. It does show he's of a different kind of order. He does. You know, people say he likes being an entertainer and amusing as a speaker like Donald Trump. But I suppose the standout characteristic among many of him is his age.
He's so young. He's literally half Donald Trump's age. Some people did think in advance that Donald Trump's vanity would not allow him to have somebody so clearly young and ambitious under him, because he would worry about them pursuing their own agenda. Is it you know, how do you read it? Is it that, or is it that he's thinking, I want the Trumpism legacy to endure into the future decades?
I think it's a combination of both, because you're right, there were some people who thought someone as ambitious as J.
D. Vance could pose a threat to Donald Trump and potentially undermine him inside the White House, because he'd be thinking about his future. But Donald Trump is notoriously indecisive. And I think that the decision to name him was still up in the air over the weekend up until the assassination attempt. And at that point, I think, the people around him, including his son and his advisers, it's reported that Susie Wiles, who is one of Trump's campaign managers, but it was reported that Susie Wiles was a J.D.
Vance fan as well, and that they convinced him that if you want your legacy, because you start to think about your mortality when you have brushes with death, I would assume. And he's not a young man or a healthy one either. So I'm sure that the discussions about carrying on his legacy and what Trumpism represents in America and what MAGA is could have lasting impact. So why not pass the torch, have someone you could pass the torch to? It was clear that J.D.
Vance was someone who was more than capable of doing that and fit the bill.
Yeah, and he didn't do what often presidential nominees do, which is to pick somebody from either a different state, a state that's in doubt. Ohio is not in doubt, or even from a demographic that some thought he might want to target either women or black voters. Instead, he's gone for another white man. But perhaps somebody who can reach younger voters, which we know Donald Trump has been making some ground with.
Well, just the point you made about him not bringing in some of the demographics that Trump would need, particularly women, in 2016,, when Donald Trump picked Mike Pence, Mike Pence was from a state that Donald Trump was going to win regardless, but he was picked because Donald Trump needed the evangelical vote. And that was a core, critical voting bloc inside the Republican Party that was initially skeptical, for obvious reasons, about Donald Trump. Mike Pence gave him street cred with the evangelicals, and that paid off for him, because, if you look, they're some of the most, the most dedicated voting bloc for Donald Trump. And, as we mentioned earlier in the conversation, have elevated him to almost a messianic figure, which is problematic in and of itself, because they believe now that it's a mission from God. However, for J.D.
Vance, he is not someone that will appeal to women, which is a major voting bloc and problem politically for Donald Trump because of the Dobbs decision, which overturned the right to abortion in America. But if you're a woman like I, am in America and you're looking at a right being taken away from you, it's the first time in American history that has ever happened before, a right that had been codified for 50 plus years. That has galvanized women, and even Republican women who said, wait a minute, I think we've gone a bit too far. And a lot of dads, millennial dads in America, are uncomfortable with seeing their daughters grow up in a world where they have less rights than their grandmothers. So this is an issue that is a very powerful one and a galvanizing one.
I mean, he has made many comments that are offensive to women, American women, that now that he is named, the vice presidential pick will come out and the Democrats have an opening here to attack him pretty fairly on his commentary about women, women's rights and their role in our society. It's pretty antiquated and dangerous.
And your mention of the Democrats brings us, Tara, to our what else question, as you know, we always like to ask our guests on the podcast about something else, what else? And I thought we should talk about Joe Biden, who made a very fiery speech to the NAACP, the historic civil rights organization, earlier this week, and has been out there campaigning quite vigorously on the stump, trying to demonstrate that he has indeed the strength and vigor to continue and run for president again in November. There's talk that the Democrat National Committee will fast track, accelerate the formal process of ratifying, of nominating Joe Biden, rather than waiting till the convention in Chicago. There are procedural reasons for that, partly to get on to ensure that Biden's name is on the ballot in all 50 states. But some people seeing all of these things as an attempt to cut off that effort that we talked about on the podcast, which was set in train by Joe Biden's very poor performance in the debate on June, the 27th, an attempt to get him off the ticket.
Now, all the focus has been on Trump, the shooting, the convention, the naming of J.
D. Vance. Where in your assessment, and I know it's historically for you, the other side of the aisle among Democrats, but where, in your assessment, is that effort to get Joe Biden off? Is it ongoing or is he out of the woods now and safe?
I have to say that, coming from Republican world for so many years, watching the Democrats continue to self immolate and engage in this circular firing squad against a rather successful first term Democratic president, it's it's hard to fathom. It's insanity. And I understand the initial knee jerk reaction after that debate performance, because it was pretty awful and jarring for people to see. However, the polling did not show in the immediate aftermath of that debate that voters that support for Joe Biden had cratered. It did not.
And the pile on for three full weeks has now begun to damage Joe Biden, which is really unfortunate. The power of the of incumbency is an advantage that Joe Biden has that no other candidate, if they were to switch him out, would have. The amount of money that President Biden and Kamala Harris have raised is cannot be transferred. If Joe Biden were to step aside, it can only be transferred to Kamala Harris. Listen, he's an older guy and he's admitted that.
But the American people know that the contrast between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, that the being an older candidate and being a little slower than he was before is baked in. It's baked in. So short of another catastrophic mistake, like the debate, Joe Biden should remain at the top of the ticket and then get through November and then they can take it from there. But I think the Democrats are making a huge mistake by continuing to go down this path in public this way. And if they make the decision to switch him out or force him out, I think it's a catastrophic mistake, frankly.
It's come to something when one of Joe Biden's biggest defenders is a former Republican. Tara Setmeyer, thank you so much for talking to me for Politics Weekly,
America. My pleasure.
And that is all from me for this week, the producer was Tom Glasser, the executive producer, Maz Ebtehaj. I'm Jonathan Friedland. Thanks, as always, for listening.
Hello, everyone, it's me Shontay, here from the Guardians pop culture podcast. I just wanted to let you know that on this week's episode, I'm going to be interviewing Rapman, the creator of Supercell, which is currently Netflix number one show in the world. So if you're a fan of this show and you want to hear how the superhero genre has been shaken up, then go and listen to us wherever you get your podcast and have a glorious day.
This is The Guardian.
Whether you know your kimchi from your kefir or it's your first time boiling an egg, you'll be able to make delicious meals easily with the Guardian's new Feast Up. Discover vibrant vegan dishes with me, Mira Soda, hearty comfort foods with Nigel Slater, bold flavors with Yotam Otolenghi and many more tasty offerings from expert Guardian cooks. Experience the ultimate cooking app, Feast, today. Download now and enjoy a 14 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.
v1.0.0.240919-5_os