“Success Leaves Clues” Robin Roberts on How to Defy the Odds, Embrace Your Worth and Win! (pt 2)

Oh my, I love this, Jamie. I don't have these kind of conversations. Oh, you're good. Oh my, you are a pro here. I'm talking about, can I just for a moment, as a pro, just give you kudos that you've barely looked at your notes, that you have been so, you're so well prepared and that you really want to, it's not about me and it's not about you.

It's about the listener. I'm sorry. I'm just so impressed.

I feel loved. I feel understood. But I'll never forget how you made me feel today. I will never forget this feeling. It is a gift to be able to talk to a friend the way you have today.

And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter. that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to JamieKurnLima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at JamieKurnLima.com or in the link in the show notes.

of America's number one morning show. Welcome to part two of my interview with Robin Roberts. I want to talk about something I'm so passionate about and so excited to share with everyone. I believe, you know, there's this famous saying, success leaves clues. Success leaves clues.

I love this so much because so often it's easy to see someone who is in the women's basketball hall of fame and multiple New York Times bestselling, author and just, you know, the most famous anchor in all of America, America's number one morning show for two decades. You can see these things and go, oh, maybe she got lucky, or maybe it came easy, or maybe we think, oh, things like that don't happen to people like me, is what so many of us think. And the other thing a lot of people tend to think is like, oh, I'm talented, I'm trying hard, someone's just gonna discover me. It's just gonna happen. Or I'm not doing the things I want to do yet because no one came knocking on my door.

We tell ourself that's what must have happened. Robin must have just been discovered and catapulted to, and so I want to talk about this for a minute, because there's so many granular things about your journey that I feel like people can apply these to their life right now, wherever they're at, and it may shift their perspective on the things that they're hoping to, you know, create and ideate, and give and serve and express and offer the world, but they're sitting around waiting, thinking that, you know, it's just not happening for them and they don't know why. And so on. this idea of success leaves clues, I just want to ask you a couple things on your journey. Okay.

Because, you know, you mentioned doing the episode with Gabby Bernstein on the vision board and you're saying, I'm gonna get married this year. But can you talk about in 1979,?

1979, you writing, you, basically creating your own vision board on this whiteboard in your bedroom. Can you talk about that? Because again, I'll let you talk about that. Yeah. Yeah.

I was like, oh mama. But I had on this board because at that time I wanted to be a sports journalist and you didn't see women and you surely didn't see black women on television as a sports anchor reporter. But that was, that was my goal, because it's so important to identify what you're passionate about. And for me, it was sports at the time. So I put on the board, okay, I'm going to, you know, get my college degree.

I'm going to work in a small market, X amount of years, medium sized market, X amount of years, ESPN. Had it on the board, going to work at ESPN. And I go to Southeastern Louisiana University, which I'm very proud about, majoring in communications, working for a local radio station, getting some practical experience. And people really weren't, still after graduating, cum laude, a lot of people, they graduate, thank the laude, but I graduated cum laude, and still people aren't beating down the doors. to sign a black woman to do sports on television.

Was receiving full-time offers in news, kept turning them down, kept turning them down. I didn't want to do news. I want to do sports. Received one part-time offer, 30 hours a week, $5.50 an hour to be the weekend sports anchor in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. I didn't hesitate to take that part-time job because here it is, okay, on the vision board.

I'm now working in the small market, really small market, and kept advancing on. But it was so important to me to dream big, but focus small. I had big dreams. I know you did too as a child. Yours was the world hunger.

I love that. That was your ultimate goal. And you're going to get there, my friend. But to dream big, focus small. And so all along the way, this overnight success, this journey.

And when I went to bigger markets, every single time I had to take a pay cut. I had to take a pay cut to get to a bigger market because I would be making decent money where I was, wanting to advance. People have to take a chance on me. And so I would go in for whatever salary they would pay me, because I would think, once I get in the door, I'm going to show them my grit. I'm going to show them my determination.

And I was in Nashville, Tennessee, Jamie, doing well. I get a call from ESPN, like, I'm three, four years out of college? This is not supposed to happen right now. One of the local stations, because I did so well, they sent my tape to ESPN to try and get me out of the market, which I was like, I thank this station. Anyway, I go to ESPN, 1987, and they're not quite sure how they're going to use me.

And I actually turned them down. I actually turned down ESPN. that was on my vision board, because I knew I wasn't ready. I knew I wouldn't have staying power. I knew that as a black woman, that my margin of failure, my margin of error, was less than that of my white counterpart, that they could mess up and they'd still be okay, but I was going to get that maybe one chance.

And so I turned them down and went to a bigger market in Atlanta, got the practical experience. Then ESPN came calling again. So this was, again, that crooked road, but always, always, always having that big focus, that big, big dream, but the small focus, but focusing small on that ultimate dream.

. We need to make this happen. No, but I... I see this happening because you know those moments in life that are full circle? That would be...

Like I'm imagining your whiteboards with success written, and I'm imagining Robin Roberts on the cover of Success.

Like you literally wrote your stuff out. Do you believe in the power of...

And I love dreams, but goals seem more attainable, especially as an athlete. So when I write it down and you see it and you're staring at it, it's just something very powerful about that. So yes, so that's what I did initially.

I mean, and you should have seen, I could barely pay the bills.

Yeah. So many people, Robin, this is why I'm getting fired up, so many people we think, oh, let me play it safe. Let me do the thing that pays more, or that is going to get more approval from my friends and family. Oh, my parents always said I should go be a lawyer, whatever it might be, right? And you could have done that at that moment in time, and you chose a lesser paying job that was part time to go after your passion over what was safe, paid more, what people were telling you to do.

I'm like, 10 buck two. I want a job. I want to learn. Yeah, I want to eventually work in Chicago and LA and those big markets. But do you think that I knew that I was not ready?

and so many times we don't really.

. I mean, it's good to have a high opinion of yourself. It's good to, you know, have confidence. I'm all for that. But to also get real with yourself, to really get honest with yourself.

. what you're ready for, so you can... You know, one thing too that I want to ask, because I did this as well in my career. A lot of people be like, oh, you, just... you, just...

whatever. So you, when you were in smaller markets, you would reach out proactively to the news directors in Nashville saying, I'm going to be in town. You can interview me. It won't cost you anything. You don't have to fly me in.

I'm going to be here. It's going to be free. Like, you were proactively... like, you weren't waiting around for someone to discover you. You were proactively saying, hey, right?

You're going after it. I've had to... Robin, I've had to do that my whole life, in every single thing that's ever happened. Like, even with building at cosmetics, I'm sending stuff to L'Oreal for years before they know it. It's always just...

and I want to call this out, because a lot of people think it's just going to come to them or fall upon them, or they'll just be discovered.

But I think that's.

. we live in this kind of society that I want it now, and I can get it now and not have to put in the work. But I never... I never... I just didn't buy...

I didn't buy into that. And I just knew...

Go ahead.

And so I knew that I needed to get to a bigger market to finally make it to ESPN. And I didn't have the money. And I didn't want to put the pressure on news directors where I was sending my tape. So I'd ask my mom and dad, who were traveling a lot in the Southeast, where are you going next? And they're going, well, we got church business in Nashville.

I'm like, can I tag along and stay in your hotel room? Right. They gave me advance notice. I sent my tapes out to Nashville. Only one person, Alan Griggs, who is a friend to this day, news director at WSMV, NBC affiliate in Nashville.

And I remember him saying, I told him, I'm like, I'm paying for myself. I'm going to be in town. I would love for you to critique. I wasn't asking for a job. I value your position and would just really appreciate any advice you could give me.

And he's like, oh, no, skin off his nose. Great. I go in with my blue skirt and blue little blazer and my little, you know, my briefcase that had nothing in it, and go sit across from Alan Griggs, who's had a mustache, and he's like rubbing his mustache and he's looking at my tape. And he was really quite taken by it. And he's like, you know, I don't have a position open.

I'm like, well, you know, but I appreciate the feedback. He said, but I'm going to keep you in mind. And it was just a few months later, he created a position, lifetime reporter at WSMV, lifetime reporter, and that I could also work in the sports department. It was because I was being proactive. I was being creative.

I was trying to find a way to take pressure off of somebody who's going to make the ultimate decision. And, you know, Alan Griggs, and he said, and I'm telling you, I saw him, I saw him three times last year. He's now an instructor at a school in Nashville. But it was just knowing if I could get in the door, if I could just sell myself. And I even then, and I'm not trying to steal it, even then I knew I was worthy.

I knew I was worthy. I just needed to have, I knew I was worthy because I was putting in the work. I believed it. I dreamed it. I felt it in my bones.

And I knew that I just needed help. I just needed somebody else to see me as being worthy. And Alan Griggs told me, and I'm just being honest,

Oprah Winfrey was from that market, was some years ahead of me, just a few years ahead of me. He put my tape in and he saw Oprah Winfrey qualities in me. That's not me saying this. This is what he said. This is what he felt.

And so I needed him to see my worthiness. People are going to be placed in your path. And this is why it's so incredibly important who you expose yourself to, who you, and some of it. you have control over, some of it you don't. And so I did know that about myself, and I'm so grateful that I was able to find somebody else who felt that way about me as well.

But I think he also appreciated my creativity, my boldness. You know, it took a lot of nerve, a little, you know, here I'm coming from Biloxi, Mississippi, come busting into his office with my little suit and my little briefcase. And I think there was a part of it that was like the audacity of this woman thinking that she... And why did he say yes? I'm sure there were countless people who sent him tapes.

Why did he say yes? to me? Some of it is luck. Even the great Tiger Woods will tell you. Luck is a component.

It's not the sole means, but it is a component. I think that, in addition to being blessed and being fortunate, there's been some luck, but I've also created that luck.

I can remember as a young black girl seeing her on his couch and thinking, wow, wow. And you know, the phrase that you'll hear from time to time, you got to see it to believe it.

You do sometimes. And I think I needed it at that point. Even though I was being very sure of myself that I'm going to be a sportscaster one day.

because of my passion of sports. I just knew it was going to happen, but you start doubting yourself. Even though I would give off that persona, especially because I was an athlete, being a little confident in that. All of us have these insecurities, that we're scared at all. Fear just needs an eye of a needle to get through, to consume and paralyze you and keep you where you are.

And sometimes you just need a sign. And seeing Oprah on Johnny Carson was my sign. And then, four years later, for Alan Griggs to say that I had some of her qualities, I really, at that point, I was like, I'm on my way. I'm on my way. And just so really grateful.

Grateful to her for her example and grateful to him, Alan Griggs.

I had this whole conversation yesterday with Sarah, actually,

where I'm like, how is Robin here?

Like how? And I'm thinking about you in so many moments in your life right now, by the way, I'm thinking about you writing ESPN on your whiteboard, and then you're the top of ESPN, 15 years. you were there. Thinking about you watching Oprah Winfrey on Johnny Carson, and I'm thinking about you becoming her dear friend and doing master class with her. Like how?

And I'm going to not make it about me for a moment, I'm going to cry all my makeup off, because sitting here with you is that for me.

And if I'm just being really honest, like,

in the last 24 hours, for me to feel worthy that you are here has been a journey, you know? And I think about, I know in every ounce of my being that every one of us is fully worthy, exactly as we are, we're fully enough. You mentioned unlearning in the start of our interview, and it's like our life is unlearning those lies that lead to self-doubt, that say we are not worthy of it.

Your empty briefcase. It's like when we're on the phone, but we're not really on a call, because we all look really busy. You got an empty briefcase, and him telling you that and believing in you. And I just, you know, and I think too, just to bring it also back to everyone listening right now, I just want to highlight this again, Robin, because you reached out to try and move to a bigger, like, you're saying, okay, just look at my tape, just give me feedback. And I want to tie this in and jump ahead for a second that you weren't at ESPN very long.

before you marched into an office. Can you share that?

And there was an opening on a little show called NFL Prime Time with Chris Berman and Tom Jackson. It was the hallmark of the network. And their third anchor was moving on to do something else, and so there was an opening. And so I marched into John A. Walsh's office, who, by the way, John was at my wedding.

These are people, I mean, I talk about Alan Griggs, who I know to this day, and John A. Walsh, walked into John's office and said, you know, John, I know there's an opening on the Sunday morning, the Sunday evening show. I'm doing SportsCenter Sunday morning, so I could just stay and do Prime Time. And I know he was probably looking at me like, you should be lucky that you're even here.

And so to go into his office, and it wasn't like he was going to come up to my desk and go, hey, you wanna do NFL Prime Time? There were a lot of people that were vying for it.

You can be the third anchor on NFL Prime Time. And I was like, thank you. I was thinking like, oh, this happened. But I'm trying to, in my mind, I'm like, how did I have the audacity? No one talked to me about it.

I didn't have an agent or anything at that time.

My goal was just like, I really wanna do the work. I really think I can help.

I don't know what it is about guys, but as a woman we think we have to be perfect on paper and we have to be overqualified for a position. And it's just not the case. where men just tend to... I don't know. They're just like, oh.

They'll go for it.

let me proactively, you know, see if someone in Nashville will take a meeting with me and doing all that. And two things I want to call out before we move past them, because we're talking about success leaves clues, and I just want to say one of these things that you... This is a granular detail, but I think this is important because you had ESPN on your vision board and because a competitor station wanted to advance in the ratings in Nashville, they send your tape in trying to get you out of the market, which, by the way, just side note, every day I say this prayer, I pray God brings the right people in my life as the wrong ones leave. And I pray that any plot formed against me is exposed and revealed and backfires. And what I mean by that is I think God can use even our enemies for our favor.

And I think about how the people that just wanted you out of the market, they send your tape to ESPN, you get a call from ESPN.

And I think we're in this day and age of a lot of people being at risk of being overexposed but underdeveloped in what they're doing. And I'm grateful to meet so many entrepreneurs and they're just so tempted right now to have everything that looks good on the outside, but they're underdeveloped on the inside. Their infrastructure is not caught up. Their regulatory compliance and safety is not caught up, but they're just selling like hotcakes on a certain website. And there's just this moment in time where so many people are overexposed and underdeveloped.

And I think that that can work in the short term. But in the long term, if your development doesn't keep up or match your exposure, it can easily all come crashing down. And I just want to call this out, because this takes so much discipline, Robin.

What black woman was hired in 1987 by ESPN and fired in 1988 by ESPN because she didn't know her stuff. And I just think it is so important to take that time. And part of it is also, how do I say this? I don't know. It's risky.

It is. I'm not going to say like, oh, yes, I knew that once I said no to them that they were going to come. I had no idea if they would come calling again. But I believe this with every ounce of my being, that God's delays are not his denials.

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And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter. that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up, to make sure that you get it each week, just go to JamieKurnLima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at JamieKurnLima.com or in the link in the show notes.

And now more of this incredible conversation together.

It's easier when you look back and go, oh, but all faith.

At the end of the day, it's about faith. And when I say faith, and I don't want people who are listening to roll their eyes and go, oh, here we go. No, it's real. It's real. It's true.

And I have, I won't say unwavering faith, because I'm telling you, when I was going through my illnesses and I went to my mama and I said, I'm angry at God. She said, sure you are. Just don't stay angry. And so I'm honest with myself about things like that. And to know that, at the end of the day, why did you start It?

Cosmetics? It was pure. There was a reason behind it. You didn't go like, oh, I'll do that. I'm going to make a bunch of money and do that.

No, your motivation was to help yourself with your skin condition and what others were going through. And so I know that my intentions are pure. I know that. And I know that because they are pure and that they are intentional. You have a beautiful, beautiful home.

And I look around and it's like everything is intentional. Just everything. And it's not a bad thing. It's like, wow. When we take the time to be mindful and intentional and just let.

There are some things that are going to come in that are just that we have no control over. And that's fine. But I think those things that we can control and I can control how I respond. I can control how I feel. It's not always that way.

But to at least be consistent in that. I think it's really, it's bode well for me to have that philosophy.

And how did you break through that?

She had that feeling. We all do. I don't care who we are. So please, I don't care what level you are as a woman. I don't know, because it's fed to us at a young age.

So how did I get through it? Time, my friend. I'm different now than I was when I was younger. And dealing with the feelings that I had. So a lot of it had to do with just being patient and persistent.

Hearing that inner voice. And realizing the things that I was saying about myself. I would never say to you, Jamie. I would never say to a stranger. So why was I saying it to myself?

And just being aware and cognizant of that. But it's a little bit easier now that I'm in this season of my life. Than it was when I was younger. I'm so grateful that my two older sisters and my mother were great, great sounding boards. And I know this as women.

It's like, I'm not looking for an answer. sometimes, when I talk to someone. I just want you to hear me. There may not be a solution. It's okay.

Especially when we talk to men. Men are like, I'll fix it. I'm like, I don't want it to be fixed. Just let me tell you. Just listen.

Just listen to what I'm going through. And so I'm just grateful that I've recognized the different stages. But back then, what got me through it. Especially when I was sitting next to Diane. Who was a dear, dear friend.

And Charlie Gibson.

I was so grateful to someone like Diane. Who was a mentor. Who really helped me. And would kind of put me under her wing. And tell me it was going to be okay.

It's kind of like what we were talking about earlier. When we were walking. And what brought you joy as a child. And what you want to do in the season that you're in. In your life right now.

The speaking that you're doing. The books that you're writing.

And it's just that feeling of knowing I'm supposed to be a messenger of hope. That I'm supposed to let people know that this too shall pass. And I think I'm a walking, breathing symbol of that.

And there's something to be said of now feeling. When I have those moments of feeling unworthy. Those moments that come from time to time. It's getting quiet. And I remember something.

my mom would say. I can have a bad day. And sometimes when I do. And I remember when I would call her and say. Mom, I'm having a horrible day.

Nothing is going right. And I'm feeling unworthy or whatever. And she'd say, oh honey, oh honey, oh honey. Where are you right now? I'm at home.

Okay, go to bed. In the day. If you're having a bad day, why are you staying up? In the day. Because you know what?

Tomorrow is going to be a brighter day. And it's so true. How many times have you felt, at the end of the day. Or for whatever. You're just having that kind of day.

And you go to bed. You wake up. The sun is shining. And you're just thinking, oh, I can do it. And so that's what I.

When I feel those moments of unworthiness. That creep in. I just let it. It's kind of like what you were alluding to earlier. How I was about fear.

And when you address it. It runs away. It's like a little kid. You have two kids. They're like pulling at you.

And you go, what? And they look at you like nothing. I don't want anything. They were just wanting your attention. And that's how I feel those feelings of unworthiness and fear.

It's like, hey, hey, hey. And I go, what do you want? Oh, no, I didn't want anything. I just wanted you to know. I was here.

I'm like, okay.

And then you go and you help someone else. You remind her. You remind them that they're worthy. And it's like that's kind of the quickest also solution to it. Which I think is so powerful.

And, by the way. Right or by the day. Talking about going to bed. Because tomorrow is a new day as well. And what you just shared about your mom's advice.

It's funny. I've been very recently actually trying to live that advice. And even with my husband. With little things like you get a negative email. That just wants to take you down.

You're like, what? All those things. And we started a new thing where we wait until the next day. To reply. Because so often.

So often, the replies. Or a text message where you're like, what? So often like everything, changes. That next day.

And also almost like a second wedding. My siblings wanted to throw us a party in New Orleans. And it was like second lining. And we posted all this excitement. And that second wedding cake.

And posted it. And there was especially the video of us dancing. The second lining. And there was a comment. In one of the.

In one of the comments. One of the posts. And it said. Let me quote it. Geez, enough already.

And I was like. Well, maybe I am. And I went to bed. And I was like. And there were so many positive comments.

But that one. And I kept thinking. Geez, enough already. The next day. A dear friend reached out to me.

Because her nephew. Is quite ill. And wanted me to do something. And she said. You are a burst of joy.

I am going to watch. The video that you just posted. I am going to watch it again.

And I am thinking. Here. I was like. Oh, this person. But you know what.

This friend and possibly others. They needed that burst of joy. As she put it. So I am glad I did not respond. Or feel at that moment.

When it happens. It is like you go to bed. You wake up. And you just.

I do feel that I am brighter by the day.

Negative comments?

But part of my time at Good Morning America. And I would read. It was the message boards. That is how old I am. It was the message boards.

And there was one. His moniker was Bubba. And I would be like. Oh, Bubba said this. Bubba said that.

And she is like why.

As I have gotten older. And now. I just do not. I post. But I also want to engage.

With people. I do like to respond. To them. And it used to be. That I would respond to the negative ones.

Why do we do that? Especially when I was younger. But not so much anymore. But also when somebody does say something. If it is constructive.

I will respond. And I think they are almost as surprised. That I am responding to. What could be seen as a negative response. But you know what?

In all honesty. Yes, I read them. But they do not impact me. As they once did. But I think those of us who say.

Know that we do not see it. Are not maybe being really truthful. I think we all do read them. But it is just. Getting to a state.

Where it just no longer has the impact. That it once did.

Discrimination?

Yes, I do. But you know what? It is something that my mom and dad taught me. I remember being. Out of college.

Applying for a job. And I did not get it. And I went back to my mom and dad. I did not get it. You know why?

Because I am a black woman. That is why I did not get it. They were like honey. Maybe you did not get it. Because you are not good enough yet.

Maybe that. My parents said very gingerly. But maybe you are not good enough yet. Maybe that. Do not look for that to be an excuse.

Do not look for that to be the reason why. You did not get something. So yes, I am. There is discrimination. There is discrimination that I face.

But I do not let it define me. I do not.

It has not prevented me. Nor will it prevent me from achieving all that is. But yes. Absolutely.

We get bad news. We get bad breaks. And for so many of us. One really just awful thing happens. And we think we are doomed.

And when I look at everything. You have. Just like. I mean. 2007, being diagnosed with breast cancer.

2012.

. Being diagnosed with MDS. Being told you may have 1 to 2 years to live. Very recently. The love of your life.

Your wife, Amber. Being diagnosed with breast cancer. Turning the tables. And you being a caretaker.

How have you. Like, on a granular level. How have you. Gotten through so many. Setbacks.

And made it through. Not just got through. But made it through. So many setbacks. And have come out.

Victoriously.

Granularly. It's got to get down to the nitty gritty. I know you and I both. Want everyone who's listening. Every single person.

At least one person. To have that take away. To have something. There's a reason why they're listening to us right now. We don't know what their something is.

But we want them to be helped. What has always gotten me through. Is. The fact that.

Gosh. Such a good question, Jamie.

A belief system. That sometimes I don't even know where it comes from. And. I really. Again look back to my parents.

And I'm very grateful. That. Some parents I don't know. They don't want their child to fail. No parent wants their child to fail.

I would hope that.

My parents weren't there. To prevent us from falling. They were there to pick us up when we did. And there's a difference with that. They would.

I remember. My mom telling the story. When.

My brother was. Very young. And they were living in the south for the first time. And there was. The colored water fountain.

In white. And they got out of the car. And my parents were. And my brother went running up to get some water. And they were mortified.

Like, how are we going to explain to our son. About colored and white. And he pulled. For the water and the colored. And then he stepped back.

And he goes this water is not colored. You know, he thought it was going to be colored water. And my parents exhaled.

And then they were able to have a conversation with him. About what was going on. My parents were very good about. Teaching us. About what life was like.

For us. Growing up. In this world. In this country. As a black person.

So I'm grateful that they kind of. Did that. I don't know. By the grace of God in some ways. And the reason I hesitate.

Because I want someone listening. I want them to be able to grasp onto something. So they can get through. Their something. But this is what I say.

And something that helped me. Everybody in this room, that's here. Your fabulous crew. Everybody throws their something. In a big pot in this room.

Middle of this room. And you look at your something. Compared to everybody else's something. Chances are. you're going to take your something back.

You have no idea. What somebody else is going through. And so don't compare your despair. And it's yours. And it's real.

And so what has gotten me through each one. Is each one has helped me get through. The next one. Because it's like this big mountain. And we climb it.

And there's another summit ahead. And we're like. Oh, I can't climb that one. Instead of looking back and going. Oh, my gosh.

You see all these mountains I've already climbed. Why do I think this one is so insurmountable. When I've already climbed so many. And so that's the conversation I have to have with myself. When I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

And I was devastated. But got through it. And then MDS. And I'm like. Oh my gosh.

Well alright. I was here. And then, when my sweet Amber was diagnosed. And you know I do look up to the heavens sometimes. And go, come on.

Enough is enough. But this is something that I've said before. That. The lessons that I've learned. I mean everybody listening.

And I know you feel the same way. The adversity. You've learned so much more. Yes, you want all the glory. Yes, you want all the good stuff.

But it's those tough times. That we learn so much about ourselves. And that we're richer for it. I'm not going to be one of these people. Cancer is the best thing that happened in my life.

No, it is not. But you know what? Boy the lessons I learned from it. With both of my health challenges. Now I wish that he would have wanted me to learn it a different way.

About what it is I was supposed to learn. But this is the way it was chosen for me. And I'm grateful. For those lessons. And grateful to be able to share those lessons.

I remember one time I was being interviewed.

And I was speaking glowingly. About my family. And the person pulls me aside. And says you know. It's really not going to work.

People aren't going to buy it. If you really want to help people. And I'm like. I'm not going to apologize for having. The upbringing that I did.

So I'm not. But I remember. With my siblings. The conversations that. I would have with them.

And one thing that my sister, Sally Ann. Often, says. To us. And I know.

She will say. When we're having a bad day. And things aren't going well. She will say. Think about our ancestors.

Who were on that ship. Who were on the bowels of that boat. And they survived. And we're here because of them. Think about what they have gone through.

And so. When I really do stop. And think about that. And then think about. What is it that I'm so worried about?

What is it that I'm trying to. To get past. That I think is so huge. And I think about. And I think everybody should think of, their ancestors.

And it's not just a cultural thing. With African Americans. I think all of us. All of us. Can think of the history of our families.

And you've got five of them to think of. So many different families. That you have. But just to take a moment to think about. Those who went through the depression.

Those who went through so.

Such difficult times. And so when I do that, Jamie. When I do that. It just causes me to pause. Do I still hurt with what I'm going through?

Do I still feel like. Oh my gosh. I'm not going to say it's a magic pill. That makes it go away. But it just gives me that moment to pause.

And that's all we need. sometimes. We just need a moment to pause. And to think. Okay.

How bad really is this?

God letters.

And. It was remarkable. And sometimes they could be very simple. Sometimes they were a whole page. Sometimes they were just a sentence or two.

And I just think about how. Here she was. Talk about love of her life. Well, actually it was very dear. She referred to her four children.

As the four loves of her life. I love that. I don't know if daddy would have liked that. But we did. But here she was.

Somebody who went to college on a $100 scholarship. To Howard University. Met my father.

Was a. Career woman. And being a wife. And I think we moved like 12.. 15 different times.

That she had to set up a new home.

And then for her to be. On the state board of education. In Mississippi. Of which she became the chair. And she would always get on these committees.

That she would later become the chair of the committee. And she was always the first woman. The first black. And I love the fact that when she. When my daddy was stationed at Keesler Air Force Base.

Before I was born. In the 60s. In the 50s. They were there. And my mom couldn't be a member of the.

Officer's Wives Club. They wouldn't allow her. We go back later. in the 70s. I'm born.

She becomes the president. Of the Officer's Wives Club. That kind of. Spirit was always in her. And so to find those dear.

God letters. And to. Here she was. So many health issues. And she still found something.

To praise God about. Every single day. She could find that silver lining. In everything. And so I'm just so grateful.

That we found those. That she was able to find comfort. In putting down her words like that.

No, I don't doubt it. No. No.

I'm a spiritual person. More so than a religious person. I can't spout. Scripture or anything like that.

And I know some people will say. Universe. But to me God exists. To me the way I was raised. The way I believe.

And I know that people say. So. if he does. Then how can we have the wars that we have? How can we have children dying of cancer?

And things like that. I don't have those answers. But yes. Yes.

That is forgiven.

Who is. Blessed beyond her wildest imagination. So how do I know he exists? I mean like when you think about it. I'm so glad we're having this conversation.

When you think. Nature. Go walk for a moment in nature. And you tell me that God doesn't exist. I mean.

It's just everything about it. When I went through. This is when I really knew he existed.

When I was going through MDS. And I had to have the bone marrow transplant. And. Which means that my. Complete immune system had to be depleted.

I went through. Nine consecutive days of the most strenuous. Chemo to wipe my system out. Then to insert. My sister's healthy stem cells.

So. We're in the hospital room. There's. The syringe with my sister's stem cells. My doctor.

Sergio Gerald. Is. Inserting them into the tube. Into my chest. I can see he's wearing a mask.

And I can see that his mask is moving. He's saying something. This is a doctor. Renowned. And after he did it I said.

What did you say? And he was praying to God. That this was going to work. Even though he'd done all he could. And now he was leaving it up to God.

And he was saying. Go, Sally, go. Because those were the cells that were going. In me. The fact that my complete.

System could be depleted. These healthy stem cells could be inserted. And I am sitting here. Across from my beautiful friend. So, yes.

That gives me all the proof that I need. That he exists. And that's the reason why I'm here.

And it was the first time ever going to therapy. And sharing that with a therapist.

And the more and more I was just around that. Around a lot of people. Especially living on the east coast. In New York City. Around a lot of people that just kind of thought like.

Oh, if you believe that stuff. You're not that smart. Or you're this or you're that. Or a lot of people that have also kind of turned away from faith. Because they felt judged by it.

And I was just around a lot of that. And started to wonder if God exists. And I one day in therapy. First person in any of my five families. That I'm aware of.

That's ever gone to therapy. And I actually shared with my therapist. I said and on top of all of this. I'm starting to doubt if God exists. And that day she said to me something.

That literally changed everything for me. I don't even know if she practices any particular faith. But she said to me. Well, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? And I'm like.

Well, what do you mean? And she goes if he created the entire universe. What makes you think he can't handle your doubt? She goes. why don't you try telling him you're doubting him.

And asking him to prove you wrong. And so I was like. Okay. And that day. And this took years.

But from that day forward. Every time I would pray I would. This is going to sound like super amateur. Or embarrassing. But at the end of the prayer.

I might be praying for a friend's health or something like that. I would end the prayer with. And by the way, God. I'm doubting you exist. So if you could please show up in my life and prove me wrong.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'd be so grateful. In Jesus name, amen. I would literally end prayers that way. And, Robin.

And it took years.

But beyond a shadow of a doubt. I know God exists. And the number of times he showed up in ways where it just.

Of wondering. And that prayer sure helped me.

And happened to find. To find them. I don't think that she intended. Them to be found. But it was just so powerful to know that.

In that season of her life. When so much was changing. And that she still. She still had this relationship. She still had this relationship with God.

But I love hearing your story. And I'm glad that we're saying. We're talking about it. Because it used to be. Taboo to talk about religion.

Or God or anything. And for me, as an anchor. To every morning or most mornings. Post a morning message and prayer.

And I just. And it starts with a simple one. And I wear it around my wrist. It's called the two L's and the two P's. When I could not remember this prayer.

My mother would say the two L's and two P's. Light, love, power and presence. The light of God surrounds me. The love of God enfolds me. The power of God protects me.

The presence of God watches over me. Wherever I am, God is. And I just from that simple prayer. That I wear the key words around my wrist every day. And so when I have those moments of doubt.

In that. I'll kind of look at it. And just kind of be reminded.

Oh, you're good. Oh my.

That you're so well prepared. And that you really want to. It's not about me and it's not about you. It's about the listener. And I know that about you.

I know this about you. When you said just moments ago. That you're like hey, you want to make sure this isn't about you. And want to make it about. Neither one of us wants to make it about ourselves.

And I'm so grateful to have this conversation. I'm sorry, I'm just so impressed. This is as a friend, I'm just saying.

I just think you know. I'm thinking of your mom right now. And your dad also. Them up in heaven right now. How do you think they feel?

Watching you.

You know, my mother. Was here long enough to see. Me reach a certain level. That my father was not able to. Though he didn't care.

As mother and father. They just wanted their four children. To be responsible human beings. They didn't care about the TV. Aspect of it.

But it was really cool. Because every morning my mom and dad. Would be watching Good Morning America. And I would call them every single morning. After the show.

And I miss that. I miss that. So I know they were very proud of that. But what would they be saying right now?

They would be so. They would be so. Happy. Because they know that. I'm with the love of my life.

That. My childhood pastor. Who they, my parents, knew very well. Reverend Jemerson. Married us in our backyard.

And I think what. They would be most proud of. And they would love you. Jamie. And I mean that.

They would. Because they would know that. When somebody is. Afforded such a great. Opportunity, platform.

And the things that you've done. You don't have to do what you're doing. You don't have to be. Trying to make a difference. That you are in so many lives.

Through your speaking. And these wonderful network of friends. That you have met. In the books that you've written. My parents appreciated people.

Like yourself. And myself. Who want to be of service. And that's all my parents. Ever wanted.

They just always wanted. To be our family motto. To be of service to others. And to. We had a foundation for time.

Each one. Save one. And just knowing that. They were. Given a hand.

A hand up. To get to where they are. And that they're grateful that. I'm trying to do the same.

Lots of dancing, and it was great. But the actual ceremony was in our backyard. With this immediate family. My brother walked me down the aisle. Amber's brother walked her down the aisle.

Both of our fathers are deceased. Her mother, thankfully, is still living. And she was there. Mama LaDonna. And there was a section of the ceremony.

Where this beautiful violinist. Played songs. That were of significance to our. Our parents. And it was a lovely.

Lovely medley. And. When. She played my father's song. A Wonderful World.

Louis Armstrong. Oh. I just. I lost it. I lost it.

And then my sister. Sang my mother's song.

Blessed Assurance. Jesus is mine. My story, my song. Which was also the title of my mom's autobiography. Before she passed.

I felt their presence. then. Oh. There was. We had.

Reverend Jemerson. Who knew my parents very well. And. There was some kind of. Something happened.

And there was like. Not electrical short. But there was. With the mic or something. There was a burst of energy or what not.

And he said. Hi Larry. Hi Lucy Marion.

My parents names. He was like. That was them being there. So yes. Absolutely felt their presence.

Your wife. A letter from your wife.

You make this world a better place. For everyone who enters your orbit.

The love you have for your family. And friends is heartwarming. And speaks volumes. Of who you are. as a human.

You're so incredibly loyal.

The way you feel for others. Is so beautiful. The quiet. You make.

Makes my heart. Skip a beat. Your parents would be proud. Of how you treat everyone. That enters your world.

If people spend a day with you. They'll receive a master class. On how to treat one another. Your parents are looking down. From their heavenly balcony.

So incredibly proud of their daughter. You are humble. Kind. Eloquent. And have a sense of humor.

That makes everyone smile in your presence. Thank you, my love. For making my days brighter. Each and every day. With a full heart.

Sweet Amber. Woo. Are you going to make all your guests. Make their significant other. Write them a letter.

Oh wow.

Realizing. Not saying she's proud. Because I'm a good morning America. Or I've written books or that. But because of how I treat.

Other people. You know.

At the end of the day. We all want to be. Seen and heard. But when the most important. Person in your life.

Sees you and hears you.

That is the greatest gift. That is the greatest gift.

Woo.

Jamie.

I'm telling you. To use Maya Angelou. I'm not going to remember. Everything we said or did. But I'll never forget.

How you made me feel today. I will never forget this feeling. I won't remember everything. That was said and done. Although we're going to have a good time.

We're going to have a good time today. And we are. But it is a gift. To be able to. Talk to a friend.

The way you have today. I know. This was a dream of yours. To have a program. To have a show.

I hope. And pray. That it's everything.

That you intended to be. And I have no doubt. That it will. I have no doubt that it will. And, as my mama said.

And I have it on a pillow. We all have gifts. Discover yours. And share it with the world. And that's what you're doing.

You're sharing your gifts with the world. So grateful that you have. And are.

Thank you.

Being part of this. For sharing your heart with me. For sharing your heart with millions of people. Every single morning all across America. For being an example of what's possible.

An example of defying the odds. Like. for sharing your heart. For literally shifting culture in this country. For being an icon.

For being a titan. For being an incredible friend. Thank you. Thank you for all that. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for doing this show with me.

Sharing who I really am. Which is scary.

And doing the work to believe I'm worthy of being here with incredible people like you.

. You shared some stories you never shared before. Why?

I think so many people disqualify themselves based on their past or their past mistakes, or where they come from, or what they don't have enough of.

And I think those are all lies we have to unlearn. I definitely have. So yeah, I share some stuff about my past.

I wanted to have a conversation with you. I needed to have a conversation with you because I knew what you must be feeling. That is raw, what you put out there. And, knowing the impact it would have. We all, even though the stature where you've reached, we all are like, oh!

You're always a little bit scared. Yeah, yeah.

Tastes like freedom.

I thought this would be fun.

Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. And here, I hope you will come as you are and heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey towards your calling, and stay as long as you'd like, because you belong here.

You are worthy. You are loved. You are loved. I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know, because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing.

And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you. if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk, to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer.

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worthy. Get this book. This book, I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life. who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up something's missing in your life.

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this show is presented solely for entertainment purposes only. it's not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist, professional coach or other qualified professional. I hope you enjoyed this episode and conversation together and I am so grateful to be on this journey with you. and did you know? for every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show, there are a set of special, prompt questions just for you to help you on your journey of aha moments and revelations in your own life from each episode.

make sure you join my free email newsletter at jamiekernlima.

com to get them sent to you each week, and each episode is meant to be evergreen and packed with timeless life lessons, so you can go back and listen to past episodes you perhaps haven't heard yet, as we are going on this incredible journey of building self worth and living our best lives together.