JRE MMA Show #160 with Francis Ngannou
2024-07-23 02:14:16
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Alright, we're up. What's up, man? Good to see you.
Good to see you too.
You have had a lot of experiences since the last time I saw you.
Yeah.
A lot of things happened.
That's why I like always about writing my book and chapter. keep adding up, adding up, adding up. And yes, every time you feel like you're just maybe in the beginning or in the middle.
Yeah, I don't think so.
You're definitely only in the middle.
Yeah, in the middle.
Somewhere, I mean, it's not the beginning, but it's a lot of experiences. So tell me about leading up to the Tyson Fury fight.
Oh, the Tyson Fury fight, that was great. You know, I was just there living a dream. You know, get this big moment, get that fight that I've been waiting for four years.
The fight that everybody said you were never going to get.
Yes.
Which is crazy, like, thank God for the Saudis. Because they are making things happen, which is really incredible.
They are making things happen.
Incredible.
And it's not like, who is this? Who is that? You know, it's like, OK, we want it to happen, then make it happen.
Yeah, because everybody wanted to see it happen. But it was one of those things where everybody dismissed it. Everybody said, that's not going to happen. Tyson Fury is the heavyweight champion. Why would he fight a guy who doesn't have any professional boxing matches?
That's crazy. That's not going to happen. Yeah. And it happened. And then everybody said, you didn't stand a chance.
And then, when you knocked him down in the second round, everybody was like, holy shit. And when you were dancing over him when he went down.
Yeah. But, you know, I think a lot of people do mistake, something, you know. And I always tell people, like, not because you're a fighter that you walk in the bar. And there is this guy coming to you, maybe this fat guy coming to you. And then you stand there.
And because you're a fighter, don't think, like, he's a threat. Everybody can be a threat. You better step, take two steps back and then, like, see your distance and get ready to defend yourself. You know, you don't. If everybody hits you, anybody hits you, you're going to get hurt.
Right. True. So, yes, I might not have been doing boxing. I'm not a boxer. But still, I'm a fighter.
And even if I wasn't a fighter, you know, I can hurt and I can harm somebody.
You're a big motherfucker. I'm a big guy.
So I was watching it and people was like, no, he stand no chance. He has zero chance. I'm like, there is not a fight on earth that has zero chance. That element of zero chance doesn't exist. I mean, if you look at it, I'm a man, guy.
And then two men together, someone might have more techniques, might know the sport. But even if I never been in the gym, you still better watch out. I still have a chance. Maybe not as much, maybe not equal chance, but I still do have a chance.
But you can't dismiss someone like you and drop your guard.
No.
And think that you don't have any chance.
You shouldn't dismiss anybody.
No.
We used to be in the, I have seen fight that people show up and then they pretend like, oh, they're going to fight. They have stone in their hand. And if you dismiss them because you think like, oh, he's a small guy, he hits you with the stone in his hand. Right, right, right, right. Well, by the time you find out that he has stone in the hand, you are in the ground.
Right.
Exactly. But it was very clear to me that you had some interesting strategies when you went into that fight. First of all, you were fighting a lot of it in Southpaw. Why did you decide to do that? Was that something that you guys had devised before the fight?
You thought it would be an interesting strategy? Or is that just the way you like to box?
I like to box like that, but I also thought it was a strategy, that it would be a good strategy as well. Because, like, basically on the Tyson Fury fight, I think the Southpaw was a big component in that fight. Because every time that I realized, that, every time that I switched to Southpaw, he was thinking. But when I switched back to Orthodox, he was pressing. So when I wanted to take a break, I switched to Southpaw.
What was it like to, I mean, there's. obviously, you've had many MMA fights. You've been very successful, UFC heavyweight champion as an MMA fighter. But what was the difference in the feel of going into a professional boxing fight with a guy like Tyson Fury, who is the heavyweight champion of the world, and one of the greatest of all time. He's absolutely one of the greatest heavyweight boxers ever.
Yeah, but he was completely different. You know, the environment is different, the organization is different. It's different to be a step in the ring for the first time. Okay, you have all this spotlight on you, but you're in the ring. It feels different.
Sometimes you're in the cage, you're used to the cage, you lean on that cage, you have that feeling. You grab the cage. Also, you have shoes on. Yes. And then in the cage, you know that you can do more.
You can wrestle, you can do this, and you're comfortable with that. But you're in the ring for the very first time, somewhere that you've never been. It feels different. And then you're thinking like, oh man, how am I going to do? Am I going to be able to do three rounds?
Am I going to be able to do four rounds? I don't know. I'm going to find out just now. There's not a way back. That's crazy.
You're going to find out. So, by every round, you have to think about like, okay, how am I doing? This is the first round, then second round. Okay, so, this is the fifth round. I'm not too bad, so I think I'm going to get there.
You know, just go like that.
So you're concerned about endurance.
Yes, very concerned about endurance. It was ten rounds, and I didn't know how I was going to be feeling after the third round.
You turned it on in the eighth round. In the eighth round, you hit him with some big shots. Yeah. That was one of your best rounds.
Yeah, the eighth round was pretty good. Then I pulled my feet off the gas on the ninth round. And then the ten rounds, I'm like, oh, I feel good. This is the last round, right? I feel good.
That's when I started to do like the Superman punch or the stuff. For me, it was already a win.
You shocked the world, that's for sure. Did you have any mock fights in the gym? Like, did you bring any professional boxers and have like try to go eight, ten rounds in the gym?
Sparring.
Yeah, but like with no headgear, like smaller gloves. Did you do anything like that? replicated an actual professional boxing match? No. No?
We just do like a normal sparring, have a different sparring partner sometimes to push me. But we didn't do anything like that. You know, as an MMA fighter, we used to spar without gloves, without headgear and stuff. But you get into boxing, everything is so strict, so specific. And then you get to the point that you kind of like.
ask yourself like why taking a chance to hurt now and get, pull up of the fight.
Right.
I'm just going to train. I train the best that I could, that I can. Then I will get there, see, figure out what's happened.
And so, but from the time the negotiations started to the time of the fight, how much time did you have to prepare for this?
For the negotiation? No.
So you had the negotiations and then, once it was signed, how much time did you have to prepare for the actual fight itself? And were you preparing already, hoping you were going to have a boxing match?
Yeah, but it's different to like think that, oh, I might have a boxing match. I want to have a boxing match. Then, when you have a boxing match and knowing who you are going to fight is something different. You know, you prepare, the real preparation starts now. And between the moment that we signed the fight to the fight itself, it was over three months.
Because I know that it wasn't my field, you know, and I didn't have any,
and it's not like. I was in the gym training boxing every day. So it was basically four months. That's crazy. Yeah, I took a moment for a pre-camp.
I came back here because I was in Cameroon at the time. Then I came back here. My team and I, we work on like everything. Start like a pre-camp, you know, just train to get in shape. Start like sparring.
And then we started the sparring with three rounds. Wow. The first sparring was like three rounds. Move around, see. Then we started to work round after round, you know.
What I thought when I saw the fight is imagine if you had just gone into professional boxing, like ten years ago, how well you would do. If you, no MMA, no kicking, no wrestling, just professional boxing.
For you to do that well against a guy like Tyson Fury, who's that good.
I don't really know. And those are the stuff that I don't usually think about. But I think life sometimes just has a path for you. You follow the path, the destiny that life has for you. And you just be grateful.
Because, regardless of the fact that I didn't start ten years earlier, I didn't have that opportunity ten years earlier. Meanwhile, I had to discover MMA and have a great journey in MMA. Have a great experience in MMA, you know. So it's something that I will not regret, that. I will not beat that up over the opportunity of starting boxing.
early. Things just happen. I took my chance. I do what I can do. It's all about figuring out how far I can go.
What I can possibly do, you know. So I'm not an 18 years, 20 years old guy that is dreaming to have a career into this. But I still want to know what I can possibly do at this point of my life.
Yeah. What was the experience like when it was all over? What did it feel like when you just went ten rounds and a lot of people, including myself, thought you won?
Yeah. Oh, I feel very great. You know, like, regardless of the result, for me, knowing what I was going through, what was in my mind, like what's going to happen into this fight. First round, second round. Then I get in the tenth round.
Good. And I feel like I wasn't doing bad. So for me, that was a win. That was a satisfaction, you know. Right.
The result was other part of it, which didn't matter much. But I knew already that, if ever, because I couldn't guarantee that we would get in the tenth round. But if ever we get there, I wasn't expecting to win.
When you dropped him.
Definitely not.
When you dropped him in the second round, I jumped off the couch. I jumped in the air.
I would say something, you know, like I won this from the moment that they accepted the fight, that they signed the fight. Because I think I was very underestimated, you know. They didn't know that I could have done something, you know. If they had known that beforehand, maybe this fight would have never happened. Because they would have seen a risk.
And they wouldn't want to take that risk. So this was basically like less, with zero risk.
And it probably would have been different too, because there was no footage to prepare for you. Right. Like. the only footage that he could prepare was watching you fight in MMA.
Yes. He was...
There it is.
Why were you dancing in front of him?
When we started the fight, when the referee said, okay, you guys, go to your corner, he said, let me take you to school.
So that was.
. The dancing was like, I think you're a bad professor. You're a bad teacher.
That was the only reason why I did that.
He's a funny guy, man.
He's funny. He's very entertaining.
He's so entertaining.
He's just a show guy.
Yeah.
That's happened to really like being very talented in boxing, good at it. But he's an entertainer.
I mean, he's.
. The way he sells it. I mean, even the way he like was playing with his fat, like standing next to you, like rubbing his belly.
Like sometimes he will insult you. I don't know if he's insulting you or if he's making fun. But it's just funny that you have to laugh.
I really have nothing to say. He kept talking about how big your dick must be. He's a funny dude, man. He's a funny dude.
He said that since the first time we met. And he will put some stuff up sometime, that I'm like, what? And I really have a hard time understanding what he's saying. Oh, I do. So I swear to God.
And English is my first language.
And they have to translate to tell me what he said.
His English is hard to understand. The Gypsy King. He's quite a character. Did you hang out with him at all after the fight?
No, we didn't hang out. But I think we both respect each other. And I think he always... He always... I mean, he was entertaining, but he always show respect.
And I know that he respected me even from the beginning. It's not like this was after the fight. Even from the beginning, he could have said everything that he would say to make his show, to laugh, make people laugh. But he's very respectful. That's cool.
Yeah.
Was there any talk after the fight about a rematch?
Yes. There was even a rematch close.
How do you call it?
First regard of rematch close. There was something in the contract about the rematch close.
Was that if you beat him? Or if...
It was if I get in the 8th round.
Really?
Yeah. Wow. So the deal of the rematch was if I get in the 8th round.
So why didn't the rematch materialize?
I think it's the timing. I think it's a matter of the timing. Yeah.
So you go from that fight to the Anthony Joshua fight.
Yes.
So tell me about the preparation and leading up to that fight.
In fact, the preparation for the Anthony Joshua fight, then I started, you know, after having like 4 months of training camp for the Tyson Fury fight, I had this feeling. Then I get a little confident. now. I know how it works. Like 10 rounds, and then it was pretty good.
You know, the Tyson Fury fight, I think I sparred like 10 rounds for like 2 weeks. Yeah, like 4, sparring of 10 rounds, barely. But the Anthony Joshua fight, 6 weeks before the fight, I was... No, I wasn't 10.. No, the Tyson Fury...
Yeah. 4 weeks before the fight, I was already doing like 10 rounds. And I was feeling good, you know, even a little lighter. But things play out different. And I think, unlike the Tyson Fury fight, that nobody expected me to do anything.
Here, they were expecting me to do something. So, things played out a little different. And then we get in the fight week. And then every time that we're going to do something in the fight week, whether it's media, they're going to pick me up. And then I get there, I have to wait like 1 hour and a half before he arrives.
And there was like maybe the third day of the week that Dewey, Dewey Cooper, he said.
. Oh, he started to get really mad, upset about it. Like, yes, this is how they do to get fighters tired. But at the time, I didn't know what was going on, you know. So, I'm like, no, come, relax, Dewey, it's okay.
You know, I didn't know. until we get to the fight day. Fight day, receive an email, pick up time. I mean, this is one thing among others. Pick up time, 10.30 from the hotel.
And then, when they say 10.
30, by 10.
20, there is a car in your door waiting. We go to the supposedly fight time, between midnight to 1am. We get to the arena, 10.45.. There is a producer coming to the locker room. Say, oh, guy, we are running late on the broadcast.
Now we are going to go around 1.
45 each. I'm like, okay, 1.45, it's 10.45, three hours.
Oh, okay, you know.
So, what do you do? Do you eat? Do you sleep? What do you do when you know you have three more hours?
You don't know, you just stay there and then you have like a drug test guy around waiting for you to pee.
How far before the fight do you eat?
Usually, maybe like four, five hours. Yeah, like maybe five to six hours, and then you get some snacks in between, you know. And then, yeah, it was around 1.30 that Anthony Joshua arrived. I saw him, I'm like, so we're supposed to fight at 1.45, he's arriving at 1.30.. What does that mean?
So, they're playing games.
So, we fight at 1, at 3.
30.
Oh, wow.
At 3.
30.
. I've been in Saudi for almost two months, training to fight between midnight and 1.. That was my training time by 2, 3..
So, they wanted to keep you anxious, drag it on psychologically, put it in your head, you don't know when you're going to fight.
Pretty much. Yeah. But even at that time, I didn't know what was happening. Right. It was after everything that I'm like, what's going on?
Because I get to the point that I was so tired. I was in the locker room, eating meat, then sit down, feeling asleep. Then I tell Eric, Eric Nixon, like, bro, something's wrong.
I'm asleep. I feel like I want to sleep. Like, I'm sweating.
But we just keep doing. So, that's fight. I mean, not to say Anthony Joshua couldn't win me. I think if there's somebody that you can lose against him, he's the guy. And he's one of the best of doing it.
And this is definitely not on him, because he wasn't the guy that was sending all those emails, was organizing. So, I'm not blaming him about anything. But the organization, bro, nah. They did quite some stuff that wasn't fair. Wish on the Tyson fight was perfect.
Everything was perfect, because I wasn't a threat. I wasn't. Nobody cares about me. Everything was organized. We get there in the locker room, I think, was two hours before the fight properly.
Hmm. So, then I'm like.
Well, Anthony Joshua is a veteran. You know. He's been in the boxing game for a long time. For sure. And he knows all the different tricks.
They also obviously very much prepared for your style. They saw you fight Tyson Fury, so they had tape on you. As Tyson Fury did not have boxing tape. He didn't have any footage to study. But Anthony Joshua did.
And it was very clear that he knew you had certain tendencies. And there were certain things that you did with the Tyson Fury fight that he exploited in his fight.
Maybe. And then I think, again, I think he's capable to figure out everybody. I think he's capable to win everybody. But in this case, I feel like in some ways they stand in my way a little bit.
They stood in your way. Yeah. So, they played some games. Yeah. Well, they wanted to get the most advantage possible.
You know. Which is, that's, you know, smart. If you're their coach, their manager, that's what I would do too.
But it wasn't their coach that was organizing the fight.
So, you think it's the organization itself? That they set everything up in his favor?
The organization. I mean, yes. His team was part of the organization because it was Queensberry and Mushroom. Those emails was coming from there.
So, those are the people that told you to get there three hours earlier than you needed to be?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those are the people that were sending the schedule, the five-week schedule. And every day would send everything, like pick-up time, the program, the schedule.
Have you had a chance to go back and watch the Anthony Joshua fight?
Yeah. I mean, I didn't. Yes, I watched it. What was your question?
What do you remember about the fight? What was different watching it?
Oh. Even, like, feeling it. It wasn't. Even before I went to watch it, I get in the ring.
I wasn't feeling myself. And the first round, when he knocked me down, like, I fell. And I was like, did I slip? Like, what exactly knocked me down, made me fall? Like, this punch?
Because I felt the punch, but it wasn't the punch that would knock me down. You know? So that's when I really get confused. at that time. I'm like, damn, what?
But this is the thing. From that moment, I get knocked down with a punch that wasn't that hard.
You don't think it was that hard?
No. He hit my hand before he hit my face. And I felt it. I felt the punch, but I wasn't on the floor, the first one. And then I get down, then stood up.
We finished the round. I went on my corner. But by the time I went on my corner, I never came back from that. I kept going. And I remember being in my corner, and Dewey was like, don't go on, southpaw.
He's waiting you on, southpaw. Do this champ. Do this champ. That was it. From there, I don't remember when I left the store to get in the second round.
Well, that was probably from the big punch in the second round too, right?
Yeah, but I'm talking about the first round.
Right, but the memory afterwards is always going to be cloudy after a knockout, especially a bad knockout like that.
Yeah, but I remember exactly what happened until we get to the store. I remember being there, having blurry vision.
The guy was in front of me. My team was in front of me speaking to me, and then the voice was getting distant.
So you think there was something wrong?
I don't know if it was the fatigue. I don't know what was it, but something wasn't right.
So something wasn't right. Forget about the punches he landed. Something else was wrong. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.
Something was wrong.
Do you think it's something you ate? Do you think it was something that someone gave you?
I have no proof. I don't know if maybe it's….
Did you get tested after the fight?
Maybe it's the fact that I get there at that time.
So just the fatigue and the anxiety of the hours and hours. I don't know if it's the fatigue. Right.
Yeah, but something wrong. I wanted to get…. First of all, when all those things happen, you are in the moment. You don't think. You don't get out of the fight and think about, like, go, get tested.
You know? Right. You process things and then see to understand, to see how it was wrong. But by the time they say, I think I need…. You have to do, like, within 12 hours to do, like, blood or urine.
12 and 24 hours. That was it. So I didn't do that. I can't say. it was that.
I don't know.
But… But it felt like something was wrong.
I wasn't…. It wasn't me. Yeah.
So did it feel like something was wrong, like, just plain fatigue? Or did it feel like something was wrong, like, maybe you were poisoned? Or maybe you were drugged?
Plain fatigue. Plain fatigue.
Fatigue.
Yeah.
So just fatigue. Yeah.
And the fatigue aspect.
Yeah. Well, this is also an aspect of experience, right? Because this is only your second professional boxing fight. Yes. And, you know, there's things that people do.
Like, they do very intelligent things to…. Like, Gervonta Davis, when he fought Ryan Garcia, he made him dehydrate, get down to a low weight, and then there was a clause in the contract where he couldn't gain more than 10 pounds before the fight itself. So he went into the fight dehydrated. Smart for a guy like Gervonta, who's a huge puncher, you know? So there's things that, like, experienced professionals that have been in the game a long time, will get a fighter to agree to.
that's not in their best interest. And then there's things that they can do to you, like make you wait all day and make you wait around, which will fatigue you.
Yeah. But there wasn't a thing or something in the contract that was forcing me to do something. The only thing was, like, to show up on time.
Right.
So that was everything. Because, like, before, all that, the week before, sparring, everything feels good. I spar way more, better, way more stronger than what I did on the Fury fight. Right. Even my sparring partner was different at that time.
You know, on the Fury fight, we were getting somebody in maybe after the six or eight rounds just to weigh me down. But the quality of the boxing wasn't that impressive, right? Here, it was different. And I was able to hold. I know that if I had to fall, it would take a little more to get me down.
Well, Anthony Joshua's a big puncher. He's a big puncher. He is. And he's fast. He's fast, and he's a one-punch knockout puncher, as opposed to Tyson Fury.
He can knock guys out with one punch, but really he wears guys out. He beats guys up and then takes them out. later. Like the Deontay Wilder fight, he beats him up and then he takes him out. Whereas Joshua can take people out with one shot.
He's a much bigger, physically much more powerful guy.
No, I agree with that. And I knew that.
I knew that.
What would you do differently if you could do the Anthony Joshua fight again?
That's the problem. We did everything right. Like?
Everything right in preparation.
In preparation, we did everything right. You know, sometimes. You know, like when, for example, I fought Stipe. I went back, and I could have made a whole list of what I did wrong. What I could have done better.
And that's why, like, even after that fight, my next fight against Derrick Lewis was so bad, because I was still working on the list of what I have done wrong. But here, we were very disciplined. We did everything, and everybody was professional. You can't say, this person did this wrong. This should have been like this.
This should have been like that.
I don't know. It's so different, too, because you're going from no professional boxing fights to two of the very best, not just in the world, but two of the very best ever. Anthony Joshua, Olympic gold medalist, elite fighter, an incredible athlete. I mean, he's so good. So, did you think, like, at all about having fights with maybe some guys that were below that level to get more experience?
Like, after the Tyson Fury fight, maybe fighting a guy who's, like, ranked 15th or 16th, you know?
I never thought about that.
You just went for the money. And the money and the big fight. The big fight is obviously...
Yes, won the big fight. So, like, for example, after the Tyson Fury fight, if I go for another guy, top 15, like, what's the goal here? I mean, again, I'm not 20 years old, I'm not 25, that I have a plan to go up the ranking. Right. And get to the championship.
I want.
Just get that money.
Yeah, get the money. Get the big fights. The big fight. Out of the big fight. So, that was the goal.
Yeah. Well, you achieved that goal.
Because, like, first of all, going to the Tyson Fury fight, you didn't know if there was a plan after that, if there was another fight after that. And then, after the Tyson Fury fight, the next fight that you have a call for was the Anthony Joshua fight.
Were you trying to get a different fight after the Tyson Fury fight? Like, after the Tyson Fury fight, were you trying to get a rematch? Or were you just willing to take whatever they are offering you?
The rematch was there. We know we had the rematch, but he was going to fight Yusek first. Thing. that's supposed to happen in December, and he couldn't.
Right, he got cut.
Yeah, he couldn't. He couldn't fight in December. So, I wasn't really on something. I was just there, and then I get the offer of Anthony Joshua. Then I'm like, let's go.
Hmm. Yeah.
So, where do you stand now? What are you planning on doing now?
What do I plan on doing now? I think I still have a couple in me. Boxing fights. Yeah, a couple of boxing fights. Yeah, basically boxing fights.
I have a couple of MMA fights. And I think I'm going to fight MMA fight by the end of the year with PFR. I'm going to have to fight in Saudi again.
Really?
Yeah.
Well, one of the things that has been discussed that apparently the UFC might be open to, because the Saudis throw around so much money, is the potential of a joint promotion. A cross promotion. With you versus Jon Jones.
Make it happen.
That is what the world wants to see. Because when you have a guy like yourself that knocks out Stipe, becomes the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion, and then, through negotiation, only decides to relinquish the belt, everybody, even though Jon Jones is the champion. now, everybody's like, yeah, but you didn't win the title against the champion. And you were the most compelling fight in the heavyweight division, for sure for Jon Jones. Hmm.
Well, that's what I wish. But, you know, this takes a lot more than what I want or what I wish. Right.
There's a lot going on.
Yeah, there's a lot going on.
So tell me, what is the status of your deal with the PFL now? So how does that work?
It's working pretty good. We have a good relationship. I have some fights. Again, I will be fighting by the end of the year.
Do you know who you're fighting?
I think Reynan Ferreira is the guy.
That's the guy that knocked out, Ryan Bader.
Yeah.
He's dangerous. He's legit.
I've been telling people about this guy for, what, almost two years.
He's a big dude too.
I say watch this guy. Yeah. But very athletic.
Very athletic, fast.
Fast hand, one-two, knee stuff. Like, very athletic. Yeah. So I think it's going to be him.
And you think that fight will be in Saudi Arabia as well?
Yeah, that's what the PFL is working on.
Interesting. Do you know when that will take place?
October. October. Yeah, they're working on October. All right. It's not finalized yet, but they were talking about October 19..
Isn't that around the same time the UFC has that big Abu Dhabi card? Don't? they have a big Abu? Can you go to the UFC's website and see what their Abu Dhabi card is? I believe, I want to say, somewhere around the end of October, there's a big UFC card in Abu Dhabi.
25th? I know it. October 25th? So October 25th. Yeah.
Yeah. That's one week after.
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I don't know if the UFC has that card finalized. Do they have that card finalized?
They always put on a big fight when they go to Abu Dhabi. Abu Dhabi is always a big card. A lot of, like, top-level fighters on that card.
Yeah. Even this Riyadh one is going to be a big card.
No, I'm sure.
If we make it happen, they're going to stack that card.
Do you know who else would be on that card with you?
I don't. Again, it's not finalized yet, but I think Cedrin Doumbé would be on that card.
Doumbé, I love that dude.
Yeah.
I love that dude. I've had him on the podcast before.
He's an entertainer too.
He's a comedian.
He's a comedian. He's crazy.
He's funny. He's very funny, but god damn, he can fight.
No, he can fight.
How crazy was that fight?
He can back up whatever he says.
Oh, yeah. He's an elite kickboxer, elite kickboxer. He trained at my gym in L.A. When I had my gym in L.A., his trainer came when he did my podcast, and he had a workout session. And, man, his workout sessions are crazy.
He's so cardio-intensive. They're doing, like, sprints on the treadmill, and they run to the heavy bag, sprints on the heavy bag, run back to the treadmill. I was like, damn. Like, watching that, I was like, no wonder why this guy has a crazy gas tank.
Well, he was a champion at Glory for a long time.
That wasn't a mistake.
He was knocking everybody out. Not just knocking everybody out, but the way he did it, like, he melted guys. He put pressure on them. Knockout, power, but intelligence. Just great technique, but the cardio was crazy.
And I remember thinking, like, this dude doesn't get tired. And then, watching him train, I'm like, oh, well, there it is. I mean, he's not just doing, like, normal mitt work. Like, I've seen other guys work out where they do mitt work, they do their things. Like, his stuff is cardio-intensive, man.
He wants to have a full gas tank when he gets in there.
Yeah, he knows what he's looking for.
How crazy was that fight where they called the fight because he stepped on a piece of glass inside the cage?
I don't know, man. And I don't even know what that referee was doing. All they had to do was pull it out of his toe.
He's like, hey, I stepped on something. I stepped on something in my toe. Fight's off. Fight's off.
Yeah, I think you stopped the fight, and you even checked the canvas. if there's no more piece of glass on the canvas.
That should be overturned.
Because that was dangerous.
It is dangerous, but that should be a no contest. There's no way that should count as a loss.
That was a no contest fight.
No contest at all. No chance.
How the fuck does another guy get a win? He's not complaining about, like a eye poke or something that didn't happen. Nothing. A piece of glass.
A piece of glass. And he's pointing to his toe, and he's saying, just let me get it out of my toe. Yeah, it shouldn't be there. Let me get this out of my toe. It shouldn't be there.
And, you know, things happen. Who knows how it even got in there? Who knows what happened? The odds are just some random freak accident. He steps on something that nobody.
You know what? It could have been stuck to someone's shoe, and someone's walking around the cage with that stuck in their shoe, and it falls out of their shoe, and it sticks in his toe. He stands on it. He gets it in his toe, and he just points down. They say, stop the fight.
Yeah. And he's like, I lost?
He pointed down twice. Like first, and the referee said fight.
See if you can find that, Jamie.
The second time?
I was reading someone's explanation of what Mark Goddard did, and they said he did what you're supposed to do. Like a fighter can't ask for a timeout.
And so like. No, no, that's wrong. It wasn't a timeout, though. It's not a timeout.
There's a foreign object inside the cage.
Yeah, a foreign object.
That falls under the timidity sections of the referee's guidelines.
No, no.
Timidity? This is just someone's explanation. Did they say timidity? That's what this says. Oh, that's ridiculous.
No, no, no.
Oh, that's ridiculous. I'll find it. See if you can find the footage, though. Because the footage is, it's so obvious there's something wrong. The referee should just say time.
Ask him what he's saying. Like what? It wasn't like. he was in trouble, and he was looking for a timeout.
Yeah. He was dead. In the middle of the fight. In the 50-50 position. Yes, yes, yes.
Okay, break the fight. Break the fight. It's not like nobody is losing position.
Exactly. So. here it is. He's standing there.
Yeah. It's not like nobody is losing position from that. It's not like he take a punch. I want a recovery from that.
Fucking crazy.
Yes. No.
I just don't understand that at all. I mean, I haven't talked to Mark about it.
That wasn't a good decision.
I don't understand. I mean, maybe he's hindered by the rules. Maybe that's just what the rules state you have to do. When a fighter says you have to stop something for a second, I don't know what the rules are in terms of that. I've never seen that happen before.
I've never seen someone step on something inside the octagon and then point down to their foot. I've never seen it. So I don't. But, man, what a shame. But he came after that, and he won.
He won his next fight. He's going to fuck up a lot of people, man. I was bummed out that he went to the PFL. I wanted that guy in the UFC.
He can fuck up a lot of people.
Oh, and, you know, he's got a lot of years on the clock, too.
He said he wanted to go to the UFC, and then they gave him some sort of contract, and then I'm like, no, bro.
They gave him a bad contract?
Yeah. That's unfortunate. I think he said that on the tweet, right?
I don't know.
Yeah, he made some tweet about, like, his salary. That doesn't make any sense.
Well, that's crazy, because that guy could be a superstar. He could be a superstar.
He's so fun.
Yeah.
He's a superstar. The guy filled up the Bessie Arena in Paris.
Yes. In France, he's a superstar. Yeah. I mean, and that could translate 100% to the United States and to the rest of the world. I mean, he's that good.
He's that good. Yeah. He's one of the best in the world, and the fact that he's over there, just like, well, great for the PFL. Great for the PFL, you know, but for the UFC, like, that's a big loss. Like, anytime, you can get an elite kickboxer, and he did a lot of training.
He did a lot of training in wrestling, went to, AKA, trained there. He's really worked on his takedown defense.
He wants something. Yeah. He definitely wants something, and he's working on it.
And the guy has serious discipline and workout. And he's just smart, man. And the way he fights, he's just like, he sets guys up, and he talks so much shit before the fight, too. He's fun.
Did you watch his first fight at the PFL? Yeah. The guy brought a mattress.
Like, what the fuck is this? So Jordan, go to sleep. And he put the guy to sleep. Yeah. In a few seconds.
Well, the difference between his level of striking and most guys in that division, level of striking is like this.
Yeah, there's a huge gap.
A giant gap.
The other guy was just trying to compensate with their wrestling, or jujitsu or something. And even if you don't have a better wrestling than him, at least you grab him, you avoid some punch.
Yes. And the thing about him is that every fight starts standing up. So one thing, if you're a really good wrestler, you have to take the guy to the ground. But the fight starts standing. You know, with Cedric, the fight starts in his best place.
And then you see how he was fighting his second fight. He was very low. He went very low. Like, okay, you're a wrestler. Yeah.
Let's see how you're going to get that level change. Yeah. Like, I'm already down here. Mm-hmm.
He's very intelligent. Very smart.
And again, his level of striking. And we see that with guys like Alex Pereira. Right? Like, that level of striking. When you're a glory champion, the level of striking is so high.
It's so above the average MMA fighter. Yeah. Then when he gets in there with these guys, they don't want none of that.
And then, as soon as they start to get a little wrestling defense and stuff like that, they become a trouble. You can't take him down anymore. Exactly. And then you stand in front of him. He smoke you.
Yes.
What could you do?
Well, you see that with Alex Pereira now. Yeah. His takedown defense is much better. And he keeps getting better. He's evolving so quickly.
Because he's been training.
Yeah.
He's been training for so long.
He's been training for so long. And then he's also training with Glover. You know, Glover Teixeira.
Glover Teixeira, yes.
Who's also a former champion. Glover was a guy that was locked out of America for six years. He couldn't come to America for six years because he had visa issues. And he was like the boogeyman. We would all hear about him in Brazil.
Everybody would talk. Yeah. Glover was like one of those guys before he entered into the UFC. And I think he wasted his prime, unfortunately, in Brazil. I won't say wasted his prime.
But I think his prime years were outside of the United States. That's why, when he won the title, he was like 42..
43.
. 43?. What exactly is a prime years for a guy that won a title at 44? At 43.. I think you get to the point to think that maybe 43 is the prime years.
If he won the title at that year, right? Yeah.
You watch that game, like 43?
. He's not that old. You know, I think at 43 you can still do something.
Yeah. Well, it depends on the division, right? Like George Foreman, won the heavyweight title at 45..
Yeah. Yeah.
Heavyweight is more. Yeah, it's different. Because they don't push on that gas, you know. Right, right, right. They throw some punch and move.
How old is Cedric?
Cedric Ndombe? Yeah.
I don't know. I want to say he's young.
Yeah, he's young. He's young. He might be 32.. How old is he?
31.
That's a good age. At 31.. Yeah. Yeah.
And with that level of kickboxing, whoo. And power, man. You know, like, not just like technique, but power and endurance. Like it's a rare combination he has of very, very good endurance and extreme power.
Yeah, he hit like a deaf guy. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, he's a fucking killer. I'm excited to see what happens. Do you understand the PFL's point system? Do you understand that system?
What do you mean?
You know how they have points? Like, if you get a knockout in the first round, you get one point or three points. Yeah. What the fuck are they doing?
Why are they doing that? That's for the regular season. I think it's just to push people for a better fight. Everybody knows that you get a knockout, you deserve something better. You get a finish, you get something.
Right, but you can't always get a finish. But what if you're fighting a guy that's like your level? Like you're both elite and you're both fighting in like this incredible fight. You shouldn't be penalized because you can't take out a fighter who's the best in the world in the first round. That seems crazy to me.
Yeah, but either way, if you win a fight, you're winning something. Yeah. You just win more. It's like having a win bonus or something. I don't like win bonuses either.
I hate win bonuses. Yeah, me too. I don't like it.
I don't like it. I like boxing. set up better. where you have a contractual, you have a contract. You're going to get paid $10 million, whatever it is.
That's what you get. You don't get $10 million, but you only get $5 million if a shitty judge gives it to the other guy, which we've seen so many times in the UFC. Guys lose half their paycheck because of a bad decision.
Yeah, but what does that benefit? Well, who does it benefit?
I don't know who it benefits. I don't think it benefits anybody. I think it's bad for everybody. I think it's bad for the audience because they're like, what? Because it makes them angry.
It's bad for the fighter, for sure. If a fighter loses their paycheck, loses half their paycheck because of a bad decision.
How about the promotion?
I don't even think it's good for the promotion. I think it's unfair. I don't think it makes any sense. No guy's trying. At the elite level, everyone's trying to win.
They're all trying to win. Yeah. No one's not trying to win.
Absolutely.
No one's going to just coast.
For the most part, you get there by winning. Yes. Yeah. That's how you get there.
The whole thing is the glory of victory. It's what you're trying to do. You're not going to fight less hard. I just don't understand the logic behind it. I think it's a flawed concept.
I think it's something that never existed in combat sports before MMA and really shouldn't exist. I think fighters fight their best, especially at the elite level. They fight their best.
Yeah. I agree with you, because when you lose a fight, at least you should get your full pay on that fight. Yes. But the loss won't help you. It will disadvantage you on the next fight.
Right. On the next negotiation. I'm like, oh, you lose two fights in a row. Right. So you don't have a power position anymore.
Exactly. Just to pick half of your purse because you lose a fight. Yeah.
It's crazy. I don't like it at all. No. I don't like it at all. It doesn't make sense to me.
I've heard people try to argue it, and every time they try to make an argument for it, I'm like, I don't get it. It's not fair for the fighters. Fighters only have, if they're really lucky, what's the most fights that an elite fighter in the UFC has? Like 50, 45, 50 fights? Maybe.
55?
Maybe. There's a few guys that have that level of fights. Most guys, they top off way less than that.
Oh, way, way less.
Yeah, way less.
By the time you start your career, if you already have an injury, good luck. Right. Good luck to reach 25..
Especially ACL surgery, you're out for a year. Shoulder surgery, you're out for a year. Broken hand, you're out for five months.
It might never be the same. Yeah. And most people, it's not like there's an age to start. Like, oh, you start at 20 or 25.. Right.
Some people will get there at 30, over 30.
You started training so late. How old were you when you started training?
27.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, I was 27.
. But that was only when I could have trained. Right. Yeah.
You only have a certain amount of years.
Yeah, but just want to do the best out of those years.
Of course, but for you to be fighting on a system that penalizes you if there's a bad judge and you miss half your paycheck. Does the PFL do win bonuses, too? Do they do the same thing?
I don't know exactly.
Your contract is probably different than everybody else's.
Yes, my contract is different. No, either way, I wouldn't go for that win bonus stuff. I have nothing against bonus, but don't split my paycheck into talking about win bonus. No, give me my paycheck. If you want to give a bonus for the win, let's do another deal on that one.
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.
Because whether I lose or I win, I train, I get prepared for the fight. I come, I give everything for that fight. I should get paid.
Yes.
And the same thing that I give in that fight to lose could have get me to win.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. And so now the PFL and Bellator are one organization.
now, right? The PFL acquired Bellator? Yes. Is that what's going on? Yes.
Do the Saudis have something to do with that as well? Don't they own part of it?
They invest in the PFL, yes. In the main PFL, because there's a main PFL, a house PFL that has the PFL and the Bellator now. And then now they're having, like a regional PFL, like a PFL Mina that launched this year, and then PFL Africa that's launching next year.
And that's your shirt? Yeah. And so you're a part of that as well, right?
Oh, yeah. That was the biggest, I think that was the biggest reason for me in that contract. The PFL Africa part was the most important one in that contract.
Before that, I was trying to like, even to the UFC, I have requested to be like, oh, I want to be the UFC ambassador in Africa. I want to do something out there. I'm like, oh, no, we don't know. You know, this is not, we don't. And then I get the PFL.
They say, okay, we're doing this, we'll do that. They show me the roadmap, like, okay, we launched PFL Africa 2025.. You are the PFL Africa chairman. I'm like, which extent? Because I don't want that bullshit of paper chairman or whatever it is.
Like, at which extent? Like, what exactly are you seeing in PFL Africa? And then they put it out and give, show me some element. I'm like, good. Then I'm on board.
Well, that is one good thing about going over to the PFL, because you have so much value to them. Like, for you coming over, you were the undisputed heavyweight champion of the UFC. You come over to the PFL. Everybody knows who you are. Now.
it elevates the PFL. So it's nice because it allows you to do more things.
And to be honest, one thing, I have a healthy relationship. You know, it's peaceful. Get to the point of my life that I really get tired or sick of drama.
Sometimes I just get into something, into some, find myself in the middle of some drama, and then I just walk away. Whatever you want to say, you say something. You might say I disrespect you. You say, oh, ideas are that. Bro, I don't have so much energy to give into that.
So that was part of what was going on with the UFC. There was a lot of drama.
That's, yeah. And that will take a lot out of you. You get to the point that you're like, I just want this to be over. I just want it to be over. Get back to my life.
But you're already in the middle. Whether you want to go back, you have to deal with drama. If you have to go forward, you have to deal with drama. So you better keep going forward.
Yeah, especially, I mean, how much time do you have left? How many more years do you think you're going to be fighting?
It doesn't matter. I mean, soon, 38.. And I think I'm going to be, I really want to retire in my, as they say, I want to leave the sport before the sport leaves me. Smart. Yeah, so I'm thinking in my average, like 41..
So three more years.
Yeah, 41.
. Like that.
Do you have a thought of how many more boxing fights versus how many more MMA fights you want to do?
Not exactly. I think. I will take it how it comes. I'll take it how it comes.
And so the next fight will be MMA, definitely?
Or maybe boxing?
Maybe in my 40s, I still feel like I have it. You know? Right. If I feel like at 41, I feel like I have it. Well, you keep going away so well.
Yeah.
Keep going away so well.
Yeah, exactly. Keep regenerating. Yeah. And then take one at a time, you know? But what I really don't want to do is to, like, wake up and go to the gym.
Like, I'm forced, you know? Right, right, right. If I feel like I have it or I'm excited, oh, today is a sparring day. I'm going to get there. Whether I'm going to beat somebody up or they're going to beat me up, either way, I'm excited.
Right. You know, if I still have that, I keep going. Right, right. But as soon as I don't have that, even if I'm not 40 yet, I think it's a sign. It's a call out.
Yeah. Well, that's intelligent. That's smart. The way you phrased it, I like the way you phrased it. Leave the sport before the sport leaves you.
Yeah. Because we've all seen guys who hung around too long.
I would still always do the sport. I would never really leave the sport. But the competition at that level, you know, you need to be ready. You need to be into it. You need to want to be there.
Yes. You don't just want to do it because, okay, I have to. No. You don't go play with punches, because you have to. Right, right, right, right, right.
You better want to. Yeah. Yeah.
So do you know for sure that you'll be fighting MMA next, or is it possible that a big boxing match could present itself and you would do that next?
I would say MMA next.
Definitely.
Yeah, I would say MMA next. Because I'm supposed to fight, it's been over a year, a little over a year now, since the PFA agreement, and then I'm supposed to have a fight in a year. So now we are getting a little out of the timeline, for sure. And by the time we were figuring out who should be my opponent, and I think things are very clear now, Renan Ferreira made himself very clear that he's a challenger that should make the fight. He's the opponent that can make that fight happen.
And let's assume you get past that, will you then decide whether or not you're going to fight MMA next or boxing next? Because one of the things about the PFL is there's not a lot of challenges, there's not a lot of very compelling challenges for you there, unfortunately. At least now. They could sign some more top-flight heavyweights. Who knows what happens with many people?
Who knows what happens with Jon Jones? I don't know what happens with any of these guys. He could wind up going to the PFL. Who fucking knows?
He could.
If they come up with some big money, you could get a lot of people that will be willing to go over there.
Yeah.
I mean, I think after this fight, I'll see what happens. I don't really have a clear mind on what will happen, but I will say most likely boxing.
Most likely boxing after that?
Yeah, most likely boxing.
Do you have an opponent in mind?
No. No? Absolutely not. We will see the landscape and what I can get. Who I can get.
Because my expectation, as you were asking me earlier, like how many fighters do I think I can do in MMA or boxing, I think if I get a good four-fight plan in boxing, I think that could be good. You know?
You get a good four-fight and then you build who and who should be next. That could be my potential retirement plan.
Well, it sounds like you already made a good amount of money.
Yeah, I have made a good amount of money, but you also have to remember that I started this sport for passion. You don't start the sport for the money, because at first there is no money. Right. At first it's just punch flying over your head all over and you have to dodge and then fight and not get paid. Fight for free for quite some time.
I love the sport. I still love the sport. I love the sport. I love combat sport. I love fighting and I think I'll do it until I feel like I cannot do it anymore.
Is boxing more unique to you because it's a new challenge?
Boxing is different to me, because even the muscles' memory are not the same. The functionality of my body is not the same. Unlike MMA, I know every single action in MMA, every single moment. I've been there tens of times. I know.
I get this. But boxing, you're still like, okay. You might get even in some position and get stressed because you've never been there. You don't know. You have to figure it out.
Right. Instead of it being instinctual. Yeah.
Until you get there two or three times, then you're like, ah, it's okay. I can deal with it. MMA, I go in a MMA fight with a knee injury. I'm still like, I get this. But boxing is very different.
You basically know that. Questioning yourself about if you can handle this. It's not like, I get this.
Right, right, right.
It's different.
There's a lot of thinking because it's a new thing for you. Yeah. When you train for boxing, I know you have Dewey Cooper, you have Eric Nixick. Did you bring other people in to help train you in boxing?
Yeah. I brought John Bumba from France. He assists Dewey sometimes because he has a very good amateur style, which I think is something that I still need to build in my game.
Other than that, I have Tripp, which is my strength and conditioning coach, so I put those elements down.
Did you get a chance to spar any top heavyweights in America?
Top heavyweight like who? I would say Carlos Thakam, Guido. He's at top right now. He's my other sparring partner. But in America, not other top.
I get Jeremiah Milton as well, but not other big names in America.
Which is even more impressive, your performance against Tyson Fury, when you consider you really didn't even spar elite heavyweights.
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