JRE MMA Show #161 with Khalil Rountree Jr.

Joe Rogan Podcast Check it out the Joe Rogan Experience Stream by day. Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

Wait, pigeon's a red meat.

Yeah, it's red and they serve it very rare, yeah.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

I know, wait.

First of all, eating pigeon is just, it's different, but you're telling me that it's red meat and they serve it rare.

Yeah, it's rare.

I need more details, I know.

I was a little stunned, too. When the guy, well, the chef, basically, he brought us out food, right? We didn't order off the menu, he just brought us out this food. And when the pigeon came, that's, yeah, it looks red, man.

It's like, before you prep it, you know, like this is not what I would expect, it being like, getting served this.

Well, there's a bunch of different birds that have red meat, like Ostrich, Ostrich is red meat.

I didn't know that either.

Yeah, I used to get Ostrich burgers at Fuddruckers, I think Fuddruckers went under, unfortunately.

You know what, I think? I did have an Ostrich burger at Fuddruckers like years ago. Yeah, that's what I think about it.

It's the shit, it's very good, okay?

Wow, so wait, tell me more about this. What's the word again? How do you say it?

Squab, squab, that's what they call it.

They call it squab.

But this guy just said it was pigeon.

It's like pigeon breast.

Yeah, it's pigeon breast, it's like a red meat.

It does look kind of juicy, like when you see a pigeon, they're pretty, like they're pretty jacked, so I'd imagine it's a good cutlet.

Well, this conversation started off air, because that's what it looks like. That's the rib eye of this guy. Oh, okay, that's Sandhill Crane now, look at that.

Yeah, it looks like beef.

They call them rib eyes in the sky. That's sandhill cranes. Wow, it's delicious, apparently I've never had it, but it's supposed to be insanely delicious.

That's interesting.

Yeah, so we were talking about animals that have been modified. Like, we were looking at Carl and we were like, how crazy is it that a human, over thousands of years, altered by select breeding, created that thing? It's kind of nuts.

Yeah, I mean, since we're on the topic, this is kind of weird. There was one night I was going down this crazy YouTube spiral and there was some guy who was just making creations like he used human....

Chimeras, right?

I don't know what the hell you call it, but he was making these creatures and then they were living in these jars. And then it would fast forward. Three weeks, four weeks, and they're growing. And one of them had this crazy little eye, and it was the weirdest shit I've ever seen, which then led me down. Going in another spiral where it's like, apparently there are people around the world who will do breed goat mixed with fucking human. It's just weird, man, there's a whole other world out there, there's a whole other world out there.

So the Russians were trying to do that in World War I or World War II? Which World War was it? So the Russians were trying to make a hybrid human-slash-chimpanzee? And the idea was you get a super-violent psycho-human. And you don't have to worry about Russians dying, you got this fucking creation because Russians were dying by the millions.

Yeah, it's wild.

Yeah, bro, they were trying wild shit, they were trying to make something so that they could send it off to war.

Did we have?

Well, listen, I think we both agree for sure. There's a clone out there in the world, right?

There has to be something.

There has to be right. They must have tried that. Yeah, they've done it with sheep, they do it with....

No hesitation. Yeah, please. If you get Carl cloned, I want version two because Carl is just amazing.

Expensive clone Yeah, Carl's. Yeah, they're very expensive, right? It's like 25 grand, I think.

You don't know, yeah right, it may look like your dog, but who knows what the hell's going on?

Right, but it'd be real creepy, it'd fucking chew on wires, it'd fucking....

It's like the very dark, satanic version of your dog or pet. Sematary Yeah, exactly.

Remember pet Sematary? Yeah, dude, yeah, you bury the pet, the pet comes back, but now it's still kind of your pet. But now it's evil.

Oh, fuck that, no. Just thinking about that, it freaks me out, but I think that I don't know how I went down that spiral, but....

You can go down some YouTube rabbit holes, man, Yeah, dude, I've gone down some serious YouTube rabbit holes.

Yeah.

I spent like four hours once researching this theory about Neanderthals, that this guy, there's one dude that thought that Neanderthals, we have this idea of Neanderthals, that they look just like us.

Okay.

And he thinks, No, he thinks. They probably look more like gorillas, and they probably were covered in hair, and they were probably able to see at night, and they were probably super violent. And they might have hunted us. So he had this whole theory about these super predator, chimpanzee-looking Neanderthals.

That sounds interesting.

Yeah, crazy, dude, crazy, but most likely not correct. Most people, the real anthropologists that have studied this stuff, are like, No, no, no, no.

Yep.

But they had giant eyeballs and they were just very different than us, but close enough that we interbred with them.

Yeah, I gotta see this. This type of stuff is super interesting. It's hard for me to get into fantasy books and stuff like that, but YouTube videos on this Neanderthal kind of theory or whatever.

I spent so much time just going down rabbit holes.

Brain ticklers.

Yeah, I don't know if it's made me a better person.

It just fucks up your thought process, just driving down the street and having random thoughts.

It'll make for good conversation. I always have things I can pull up because there's always stuff in there.

It's nice to have the friends that are in the same little.

And I have friends that go too far. They'll call Eddie Bravo up and I'll just go, I gotta go. I can't take this. He's so deep, he's so deep in the CIA.

Yeah, it probably freaks you out. I can only imagine you're like, Okay, stop, it's too much, yeah.

Especially today, it seems like the world could fucking explode at any minute.

At any minute, dude, what the hell are we living in? Yeah, that's why I guess it's better to just kind of, yeah. You've got to put a stop to what we consume or what information we want to let into our brains.

There's a.

That's so crazy, it reminds me, I don't know why. Kind of off subject, but on, you know, the comedian Ronny Chieng.

And actual understanding the history of how these things are figured out, how this is formulated. What led to that, instead of just the article, or, worse yet, a YouTube or TikTok video?

Yeah, exactly.

How many people are educated by TikTok today?

Everybody, that's a lot.

I really firmly believe that it's like shifting the way people think about things in a negative direction. I used to poo-poo it, I used to think, Ah, the algorithm, whatever, but now I'm like, Oh, it's definitely fucking up the country 100%.

Yeah, I mean, I've heard that. I definitely don't have the capacity to figure out if it's the truth or not, but I did hear that it's kind of crazy.

Well, you know, their TikTok's very different than ours.

That's what I heard. It's all science and positive stuff, martial arts, very informational martial arts.

Yep, Science Achievements, Athletic performance, Academics, Ratchet.

The worst?

Just the craziest stuff ever. I've seen more people get shot on Instagram reels and accounts I don't even follow. Yeah, right.

I created a TikTok like shortly because my wife was using it and they have like, shopping or something on there. So I was like, Oh, let me just download it really quick. So I downloaded it and like, after the first day, it started feeding me these like.

Meanwhile, you're living the life that they could only dream of. If you take a young guy before his life goes sideways and say, What do you want to do with? Well, it's like, if I could just wave a magic wand, I would like be a badass. Fighting in the UFC, all fucking jacked and young and strong, and one of the top contenders up and coming. Meanwhile, you're depressed.

Yeah.

Looking at people that you don't even know.

It's crazy, dude, it's crazy.

I think that's how they're doing it to us.

Oh man.

Because no matter where you are, there's something that you can watch that will freak you out.

That will freak you out, bring you down, just like change your mindset, slow you down, whatever it is.

I was talking to Sugar Sean about that and he was saying that just scrolling through TikTok or Instagram stuff that doesn't have anything to do with him, he goes. I just get this like mild form of anxiety, this like mild case of. I'm like, I do too, I do too. I don't know why. I think part of it for me is I know I'm wasting time, I know I should be doing other things.

Yeah.

Especially if you're taking a shit.

Oh, that's the worst dude.

I don't even know how to take a shit without my I'm like, –.

I take one-hour shits now because of my fucking phone, because of my phone, it's like, I can't just get in there and do the business, dude. I got to intentionally leave my phone outside to just to do what I'm there to do, but if I bring my phone in there, it's a wrap.

It's a wrap, because if I don't have my phone in there, I'm like Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights.

I don't know what to do with my hands, I'm like, Where's my phone? Oh shit.

What percentage of people take a shit with their phone now? I want to know.

99.

Guys, men.

100%.

100, it has to be 100. It's how I find out half the things that are going on in my life.

You know, one thing that bugs the shit out of me, though? If you're going to take a shit in a public place. Like for instance like the PI, right? If I'm at the UFC, PI just got done a workout, whatever, I got to take a shit. The guy next to me, turn your fucking phone down, like, don't blast it.

Don't make me go in there with Bluetooth earpods, don't make me fucking listen to. That's when you know you're a degenerate, when you put your earpods in, when you're taking a shit, that's when you got a real problem.

Yeah, you're gone.

You've gone too far down the rabbit hole. Have you fucked around with any of that AR stuff, those goggles?

Augmented reality only. Like the MetAquest, I haven't tried the Apple Vision Pros yet. the MetAquest is dope. as soon as I try the Vision Pro, it's over.

What did I see recently? There was something that they were using AI, this woman was talking to her deceased daughter, her young daughter died, and Ai had recreated her daughter. And with these goggles on these VR goggles, she was having a conversation with her daughter.

I vaguely remember seeing something like that.

This is brand new, but I think it's this.

Yeah.

She's seeing her deceased daughter and trying to touch her. Oh my God.

This is like what we were talking about about the phone, right? Just putting ourselves through this depression and stuff, dude, this is crazy.

This is crazy, she can't even touch her, so she's reaching out like she wants to touch her.

Yeah, and she's crying.

Look at that, oh my God, she's just holding the glove she has, she probably can feel something. This is what we're seeing, how they're showing it to the viewer.

There's probably maybe a version of it that feels good to her, but this could be pretty bad.

God, that's so sad.

Oh my god.

Man, we're so close to the Matrix, we're so close.

We're in the matrix, dude.

I think we might be Michael Ballas was saying it yesterday. He thinks it is a simulation, Elon said. The chances of it not being a simulation are one in billions.

I There's too many things that, there's too many coincidences, right? Like, even I might sound like an idiot for saying something like this.

This podcast is a normal thing, bro.

I mean, think about stuff like the Simpsons dude, right? you see those Simpsons theories and shit. It's like, come on, this is too accurate.

Yeah, they called everything.

This is years ago, you know, these episodes came out years ago. How are things like this aligning, or, like, how are these, you know, matching it? Just? It's weird.

It is really weird.

It's really weird.

It's weird. And why is us being in a simulation any stranger than reality itself? Just the universe itself? Just the fact that we are one planet of nine in this one solar system. That is one of hundreds of billions of solar systems in this galaxy, and that this galaxy is one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe. The whole thing is so crazy.

Yeah, I mean, even listening to you right now, as you were kind of breaking down how pretty much insignificant we are. I just kind of like, everything started zeroing in. I was like, Oh, no, get out of this thought, No, but you're absolutely right.

I think we are significant and insignificant at the same time. Yeah, I don't think we're invaluable. I don't buy the thing like the people that are like, really dark about it all and like, Oh, life is meaningless. It's like, No, I don't think that's true.

No, I don't think that's meaningless at all. No, like you said, there's an equal like significance, insignificance. Like when you look at it in the grand scheme of things, you zoom out. We're tiny, you can't even see us, you know, if you're from an airplane.

We're very significant, we're just a part of the whole thing. The whole thing is just infinitely massive. And we think of ourselves as small because we're just one piece of it, but we're like, I think we're a critical piece of it.

Some hybrid form, for sure, some cyborg form. There was an episode I forgot the gentleman's name. Ah man, super, super intelligent guy.

Civilizations.

Civilizations.

Michio Kaku Yes, man.

How interesting was that?

Yes, yes, do you know about Dyson Spheres? No, so they believe, excuse me.

Huh.

So what is this? So right here in our galaxy? What is that? Just a tic-tac?

You absolutely have to, yeah, so maybe we are just like, kind of in the beginning stages of like, you know, maybe? There's humans elsewhere in the galaxies, far, far, far away, like some Star Wars type shit, right? And we just haven't gotten there yet, but we're close.

That's what Terrence Howard had a crazy theory about.

I have to watch that one, I've seen little clips, but I've got to....

They're both good, the first one's great because he just kind of goes kooky, and then the second one's great. Because Eric Weinstein, who's like a legitimate genius from Harvard, sort of settles him down and explains what's incorrect and what is correct. And some of the stuff is very correct, and some of the stuff is really fascinating.

You've got to have that.

Yeah, you have to have actual. It's like, if a martial artist like, I've got this move bro, and you're like, try this shit on me.

You know, right?

It works in the streets, it works on everybody. It's like, no, try it on me.

But Terrence has this brilliant idea about that. What happens is you have a star, and then the particles that eject from the star are what creates these planets. And when the planets get to a certain distance from the star. When they develop that Goldilocks zone, he goes, they eventually develop people, and he thinks it's like peopling, it's like when you see, like, crops growing.

So he explained this and then someone, you said, stepped in and kind of like,....

No, that, no, he didn't correct. Okay, because that's just a theory, and it's a fascinating theory, and Terrence has a lot of really interesting ideas. But that was one of the most interesting ones. That every solar system, the reason why we see it here, and the reason why. When they look at the web telescope, it's found a bunch of these planets that are in the Goldilocks zone.

Wow.

Yeah.

Do we know where this theory, like, came from?

I think that's Terence's theory. Ah, Terence has 97 patents. What does that mean? I don't know.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah, like, they give us a little crashed UFO here and there, they give us a little this, give us a little that.

The ultimate theory? I mean, that sounds kind of cool, right?

Well, it's almost like Carl, just like Carl. Yeah, he looks very different than a fucking wolf, right?

Yes, and created us.

Oh, wow, and created us out of lower hominids, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is so fun.

It's super cool, yeah.

It's so fun to think if it's true.

I've looked at some of that stuff a little bit before, but I didn't allow myself to get too deep.

Yeah, you can get deep on that.

But yeah, definitely an interesting perspective and way to kind of break down humanity in a way.

Well, we are a mystery, you know? We are the ones who have created this theory of evolution and the fossil record and all those things. But the thing that created it is the biggest mystery. The human brain. The human brain doubled in size over a period of two million years, and apparently it's the biggest mystery in the entire fossil record. They have no idea what happened.

Is it still growing?

Probably, it's probably just growing slow, you know, another two million years from now, it might double again.

Yeah, I wonder if there's any record of like, I don't know, maybe just the slightest, you know, record of like, Okay, it's growing, right?

No wonder.

500 years ago, right now, has there been any increase in size, right, right?

Have you got, like, the average brain size of everybody today? like, how far back do we have really good records of brain size, you know?

Yeah.

Got to go back to, like Kennedy's assassination.

Probably nothing earlier than that.

I mean, I'm sure there's anatomy records that go further than that. Probably, you know, maybe the 30s or the 40s. Like, when did they start studying the size and weights of human brains? I wonder.

I wouldn't know, but it makes actually. I'm making notes right now. Like Terrence Howard, like, I got to look into this guy more. All I know is just like Terrence is fascinating, you know, his acting.

Well, he's a great actor.

Yeah, super great.

He's a great actor, but I mean, I think he's even more interesting as a thinker. But the way he responded, I think, showed a lot of character, the way he responded to Eric Weinstein correcting him on stuff. Because he didn't, you know? He kind of tried to argue his point, but he didn't get upset, he didn't get emotional about it.

I agree, 100. Yeah. Anybody that's doing things at just like a really high level, or like, they're doing things differently. Or they're like the number one, two and three in there.

In anything.

In anything, yeah, there's definitely a level of....

And if you're focusing at physics, well, everybody thinks you're a genius. But if you're focusing on hockey, people don't think you're a genius. Or if you're focusing on chess, maybe people think you're a genius, but if you're focusing on jujitsu, maybe they don't think you're a genius, yeah.

To execute under pressure, you've got to have the mental side, to even drive the physical side, right? You can be a physical specimen. How I'm built, right? But I know nothing about football.

You'd have to train.

I'd have to train, yeah, I'd have to think I'd have to do all these things.

But you look like you can play football.

That's what I'm saying. I look like I can play football, but my mind's not wired that way, right? So I'd have to do a lot to make that happen.

And then obviously there's a lot of football players that look like a beast, but if you get them in a cage, they have no idea what to do.

Nothing, dude. They wouldn't be able to throw a punch.

We've seen it.

It's so crazy.

We've seen it, Yes, we have. We've seen guys that are badasses, but there's a difference between being a badass versus a trained fighter. It's just a whole different world.

That's really interesting, man. I want to look into Terrence Howard more, actually.

It's fun.

Yeah, I like this. I want to explore the side that you're explaining to me. I would have never really known, but I'd like to be inspired by that.

Well, I had a reporter tell me about him years ago. And then I watched some YouTube videos of him. And one of them, he was at Oxford talking to them about mathematics.

See, that's so cool, what the hell?

Yeah, what the hell crazy, the whole thing was crazy. But it's just we should be inspired. There's a lot of interesting people out there in this world.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, or magic shows.

Pretty much anything.

Yeah, yeah, anything that requires that stuff.

Yeah, you get energy from it, you really do. There's a type of energy that we humans get from each other, and I think that kind of energy that we get from each other doing things that. Also, it's beneficial to us evolutionarily, because I think it promotes more work.

So like, similar to, like the Olympics, are you watching the Olympics right now at all?

Bro, I watch that fucking transgender woman boxer box the female boxer. I'm like, what the fuck are you people doing what?

Oh, dude, honestly, I haven't seen much every bar or whatever, anything that has a television. Right now. I've been traveling, so I see like Olympics is on everywhere.

Right?

But one thing that I've noticed, it's like, it's so weird. It seems like the hunger Games, you know? Like I would see all these like crazy outfits and just like, oh, you know, this like extravagant thing. I'm like, this is the Olympics now, like, why is this?

Well, the Olympics is a giant scam. There's two things going on simultaneously. Okay, you have the best athletes in the world participating in their disciplines, that's that's happening. And then on top of that, you have enormous amounts of money being made and none of it's going to the athletes.

Yeah, well, I didn't understand that.

Nobody understands it because it's not made by athletes, it's not made by the Olympics, it's made by the people that are in charge of putting the Olympics out. So they're the ones who are reaping all the money and sucking all the cash out of these athletes. Got it?

Bizarre, that sucks.

The money they make is astronomical. The Olympics makes billions and billions of money in television revenue and advertising revenue, and they don't give any of it to the athletes.

So it just goes to, like the Olympic Committee, they're just balling.

Wow, yeah, and these are the crazy people that are putting on the last supper with transsexuals, that's that's what they're doing.

Was it the last supper? Yeah, I saw it was something out like.

Fuck it was.

It said something like, Uh, some Greek, uh.

Nonsense, that was a they tried to say that after the fact. The lady who was playing Jesus literally said she was Olympic Jesus. She was joking around about being Olympic Jesus because she was in the same position.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's you're pushing this weird agenda in this place where people are already getting fucked over, right? The whole Olympics is just people getting fucked over.

Yeah, I mean, if you're the best athletes in the world, representing your country, yeah, at the highest level.

The highest level.

Possibly humanly possible for one. Yeah, you should be getting compensated.

A shit load of money.

You know what I mean?

They let some wacky gay dude get a hold of the fucking the reigns. And he decided to do this, and that's what it was. That's literally what it is, that's literally what it is.

Okay.

He's getting enough hate as it is, but the whole thing's fucking completely insane. But my point is, the whole Olympics are insane, they're robbing people, they're robbing the athletes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Who's going to win this, who's going to win that, who's going to win the sprints, who's going to win whatever the fucking event is?

That's so crazy.

It's nuts.

Oh man, so....

It's nuts.

And there's nothing to do about it, nobody can do anything about that.

It's just pure chaos. Well, at one point in time, there was probably no money in the Olympics because there was no television, right? So at one point in time, the Olympics was just about the best athletes in the world competing against the other best athletes in the world. It was for national pride, you bring a gold medal.

No, dude, you never saw that. No, you're putting me on so much game right now, you're putting me on so much.

Yo, I got a guy coming on tomorrow to actually talk about drugs in the Nazis, like all the crazy drugs that they were doing.

They had to be on drugs.

All kinds of stuff, for sure, all kinds of cocaine. They were getting, free drugs, meth.

Fucking bang.

Bang So Hitler at the Munich Olympics is like, he's on meth and he's rocking back and forth. He's just amphetamined out of his fucking mind, just coked up.

Yeah, we need to see this.

We played this like.

Oh my god.

Look at him rocking dude, look at him going, he's going.

Oh, what a maniac.

That dude ruined.

Yeah.

You know, just rocking back and forth, wow. But back then, how many sports were in? was that 36, 1936 or 38?

I don't know.

I wonder, see if you can find how many more events are there in 2024 than there were in 1936? See if they say that. But the point is, everybody who did the Olympics before television, they just did it for national pride, just like winning the Nationals in wrestling. Yeah, of course.

Got to love the AI overview, right?

Nuts.

All the things.

The Olympics were often considered controversial because they were held to showcase the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler's theories of Aryan supremacy. All jacked up on coke. We're the best.

Oh my god, we're the fucking best. What a fucking maniac.

Wow, nuts. My point is back then, there was no television revenue, no one was making billions and billions and billions of dollars. So the Olympics started with a very pure intention.

Be the best for your country.

But somewhere along the line, it became this fucking enormous business and the athletes never got cut in.

And no one's ever spoken up about it, have they?

What can they do? They don't have any power, no one has any power.

Yeah, that's true.

The TV networks don't want to change. They're like, shut the fuck up, everybody's like, shut the fuck up.

This is getting us views because they're just stealing.

They're just stealing money. Imagine if that was the case with the NBA or the NFL or UFC? Imagine if the athletes got zero money. And everybody else is driving around in Rolls Royces and living in mansions, it would be crazy.

It would be super crazy.

Yeah, you guys are fighting for glory. yeah, only glory. This is not about money, you represent your country, your state. We've done studies and it shows that when people fight for money, they don't fight that hard.

Damn.

Yeah, they let a trans—there's apparently two, at least two transgender boxers that are fighting in women's boxing. What the fuck?

I don't understand.

You can't understand because you're not retarded, it has to be something wrong with you to understand, to think that that makes sense. And all you have to do is say, you're a woman, but you're not, though. I say I'm a werewolf, but when the moon comes out, I stay a person.

This is not real. I want to understand from their part their reasoning.

Because you're a nice guy, you want to think that there's some part of this, like, there's probably some sort of a reason. Oh, if they explain it to me, like, Oh, I see your perspective, yeah, I want to see their perspective, there's no perspective.

Yeah, it's not fair.

There's a reason why the UFC has weight classes. You're not fighting? BRANDON MARINO Yeah, sure, because it's not fair, right? All these things are put in place to make things as fair as possible.

What, okay?

What article is this from? Outsports? Outsports What is Outsports? Well, I mean, I'd go to somewhere else.

Olympic Trans Boxers.

That's exactly where I started it. They will fight in Paris women's events. Yeah, but here, it said, this is the person.

Let's cut the shit. When it comes to competition, I guess, yeah, there's a level of like, it's just unfair, or it can be, you know.

Also, we're denying sandbagging.

Right, yeah.

We both know what sandbagging is. Yeah, for sure, sandbagging has always happened. You would get it in all sports. I remember when I was a kid, there was a kid that we were in little league baseball.

Little League they're in like 80 to 89..

Oh, trans boxer Hergy Bakidan aims for gold medal. This is also from Outsports, though. Okay, so this one they're being honest about, right? But they're not being honest about that other one. As he competes in the women's boxing division.

There's a lot, man, that's a lot, that's a lot to take in, that's a lot for my brain to even process.

Well, it shouldn't be about ideology, it should be about biology. You should have biologists determine whether or not someone is male or female, it shouldn't be like you just decide. This article was nonsense, too.

Yeah, it's sad, and what I mean by that? It's sad because in today's times, it's hard to stay politically correct, right? It's impossible. Even now I'm like, how do I even talk about this?

But that's the trick, the trick is getting you so confused by it all that you can't even discuss it.

Yeah.

And then you just sort of allow it to happen.

And you go, Well, it's not me.

What am I going to do?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What are you chewing on?

This is try these, that's Lucy's, that's a breaker, breaker, those are good.

Wow, this is delicious.

Not bad, right?

Wow, okay.

Yeah, probably banned from the Olympics, I wonder if nicotine's banned. So speaking of which, we should probably get to your whole story, Yeah, let's do it.

Okay.

And they did your blood work, they did everything.

Blood work, everything. Like, you know, I trusted them, I'd taken their stuff before, passed drug tests before, so there was nothing for me to, you know, worry about. And then I. It was brought to my attention from the owner of the company.

So this stuff that you were taking was a part of, like it was a stack of things, or was it like, –?

So let me I want to get this like, I want to get this correct, you know? Like, right, right, because this is the first time that I'm, you know, speaking about this publicly.

So this is Dhea.

Correct Dhea, and it wasn't even it was in a blended supplement, so Dhea was inside of a vitamin-type supplement that they sent me.

And we should also point out, DHEA is not even performance enhancing, so it's not like you could get any kind of an advantage. It would help your health. It's kind of stupid that it's illegal.

Yeah, I mean, there's like when I looked at stuff from like the WADA list on why they banned it.

Yeah, it's not a steroid, the point is it's not like some crazy shit that you take like EPO or something.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So I don't understand if you told them that this was an accident. Given the understanding that this is not performance enhancing, why did they suspend you?

Okay, so UFC.

Keep your eye out.

So then they're like, Okay, they expedited my test, they called it like, Hey, we need this test back immediately. Because I was booked to fight. And so obviously this is like, I'm panicking, dude, I'm like, fuck.

So what are they trying to do?

So I'm still suspended under Nevada State, but they still haven't given me the time yet. Specifically. So. Yet today was supposed to be another hearing, but as far as I know right now, it's going to be somewhere nine months or more.

Jesus Christ, Yes for Dhea.

For Dhea.

God, that's so crazy.

And so UFC, they're trying to help and we're trying to get this like, come on guys, like, I'm being penalized for reporting, self-reporting.

Self-reporting, something that's not even performance enhancing.

And that's not even my fault, right? You get what I mean, like, I didn't intentionally do this.

Yeah, you are really, damn close, you're really, really close, and every time we see you, you look better. I was really looking forward to that fight because I think that would be that's a giant test, you know, Jamal is a former champion.

Yes.

Man, yeah, so you're in limbo right now?

I'm in limbo, dude.

And how many months ago was 3-0-3?

3-0-3 was what was it. May, May.

May, May, Yeah, okay, so here we're in July, and so you still don't have an answer yet.

Nine months from the day.

So you'd be eligible in six months from now, yeah, so you could maybe do December card.

No, nine months from the day of a positive test, I think that comes out, I think that comes out in February.

Oh, wow, okay, October, November, okay.

Yeah, like February, so I wouldn't be able to fight until next year.

God damn it.

Yeah, dude, and so like –.

And you're so close in this so close heated up division.

Heated up division, things are moving, you know, guys are fighting.

Also momentum.

Momentum.

And you're in your prime right now.

Yeah, dude, it's when I even think about it like it brings up so many different emotions. You know, like, I do my best to work through them and I've been training my ass off, you know? Like, I've tried to do everything that I can in this time to just stay prepared. And just even if I know that I'm going to be fighting next year or something like that, like, I'm just like, okay, I have to stay strong.

Well, you were after the Anthony Smith fight, you just you're so hot right now. I mean, it's like on that level where like this guy might break through and become champion, you're in that range, you know, yeah.

And that's, I mean, that's where I'm headed. Like, I'm so focused on whatever it takes to get to that championship. And that Jamal Hill fight was like the way that I was looking at, Okay, this is my way to prove that I'm ready, yeah.

That's a striker's delight.

Yes, and I know that I have to, you know, like, yeah, I've got to fight Jamal. And maybe that'll maybe. Like, if that happens first, then that'll still keep me in that position of like talks, of like, okay, then now you're ready for it. Who knows what's going to happen, who knows how many fights it's going to take now for me to get that fight?

Well, fortunately, Jamal, unfortunately for him, Jamal got injured, yeah, and so he had to pull out of that fight too. That whole fight switched so many different times. Crazy, right?

Yeah, it looked like something pretty bad.

Yeah, yeah, and so that who knows what's going to happen with that? That could take him out for many months, we don't know.

Yeah, something like that and like, a lot of fluid it looked like.

Yeah, yeah, so have you had any knee issues?

Yeah, when I was 15, I broke my knee in the pit, hardcore pit.

Oh, no, yeah.

I was moshing, going crazy. Some guy had some steel-toed boots on and he was just flinging around and he boom, kicked my knee and broke my tibia.

Oh god.

At the top, bone was sticking out.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, yeah, and then the crazy thing. At the time, I was on tour with the band that I was playing with. And we were close to, like, Mexico. And so we went to this like shitty hospital in like southern California, like close to the border. And I was only 15, 16 at the time, something like that.

Oh my god.

And we were young, so my friends would stop at, like, Walgreens or something. Get a bunch of cough medicine Benadryl here, drink this, you know. Like, just try to put me out because I'm in a van with a broken leg.

Oh my god.

Yeah, dude, it was crazy. So yeah, I'm broken, but nothing torn or anything like that.

Oh, so that healed up and you're good to go.

Yeah, I'm good now, yeah.

It's kind of amazing when you think of how many fights you've had and all the kicking you do, you've had no knee injuries. Nothing, wow.

No dude, yeah, thankfully. I mean, shit, it's been really good, I feel better now than I ever have, like, everything's strong.

Dude, you look so good in that Anthony Smith fight.

Thanks, I loved that fight, man, I loved that fight. That was one of my favorites, I watched it.

That off speed when you hit it with that uppercut, yeah, ooh, that was slick.

I started, you know, the crazy thing, like, I'm glad you pointed that out. I don't know. I think I started that in the first or second round, that was something that I was like, doing intentionally. The reason why that's my favorite fight is because from start to finish I was 100 locked in, zeroed in.

Yeah, it seemed like it.

And I didn't feel emotional in that fight at all, everything was just locked in, locked in strategy.

It was a masterpiece. Thanks, man. And it's one of those fights where there's a certain time in a fighter's career where they make this breakthrough. And you go, Oh boy, he's right there. Yeah, like, they're right there where, like, I want to see that guy fight all these other folks.

That's where I'm at.

Yeah, that's where I'm at, you know? It's interesting because Alex is such a dominant champion, but there's not a lot of compelling challengers for him. You know, it's Ankolyev who I think is going to be next, I think they're pretty much saying that Ankolyev.

That makes sense.

And then Jan Blachowicz, of course, because his fight was pretty close with Alex, I think it was a split decision.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, and he's, for whatever reason, not being considered. I think a lot of people are looking past Blachowicz because he's older.

Yeah, you know, yeah, but you can't. I mean, you can't look past anybody, right?

Well, at the elite, elite level, yeah, there's so many of those. Look, Blachowicz and Jan, or rather, Blachowicz and Ankolyev, fought to a draw. Remember that fight?

Yeah, I think I'm not like shitting on anybody or saying that I deserve this over anybody. I'm excited, man, like, I just want to give the fans that fight, I want to give myself that fight.

No.

And I think that it's like, and there's really when you have two guys that strike like we do and that are skilled. And we like, you know, like we're thoughtful. We know everything's precise. It's not just we're not going in there and just slang and bang.

Like, Izzy says, Button pushers, Yeah.

Yeah, it's not that it's two guys that would know, Hey man, this could end at any moment.

Yeah.

It could end in the first second, but it also could go five because the both of us are fucking warriors. So I just think, like, and while he's still doing his best, you know, like, while he's still at the peak? Is kind of like, because I'm doing my best and I'm getting to my peak. And you get these two guys at the highest level and like, Fuck, that's a sick fight, that's what I'm saying, That's a sick fight, it's not like me.

That's what I'm saying.

You know, so like, hopefully he continues to win. Hopefully I'm not suspended for that long. And if I have to fight someone else in between, like, you know, in between, then OK, I understand.

They got to work that out. Who is the head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission now?

Jeff Mullen Is it Jeff, I think?

Jeff's a reasonable guy, very smart guy.

Seems like it, yeah.

Well, I don't know how much say he has on how things get sorted out. Yeah, but he's a martial artist, too.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so he's.

A lot of those guys are, you know. I went, so I thought that I was supposed to have my hearing. I guess you want to call it last month and I showed up in person. Like they allow public comments, like time for, so the public can come in the beginning. So I came and I saw these guys and I'm like, Oh, I know all of you.

Not only not your fault, but not going to help you in any way. Yeah, you took Dhea for a couple of months, it doesn't mean anything, yeah.

Not even for a couple of months, a couple of days.

Oh, there you go.

A couple of days, wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no way that's going to give any performance enhancements. I just hate paperwork.

Big Holloway fan here. Yeah, me too. shout out Max Holloway.

God damn man, how about that geichi fight? Ooh, ooh.

I was there, I was there, it was crazy. Ooh, ooh.

Boom.

Boom, boom, dude. And then everyone like, Yeah, last second, you know, it's crazy, because it's like, OK, you're watching this fight and you're like, OK, cool.

Boom insane.

The entire arena. I was insane, getting chills, just thinking about it, like, being in that moment that was sick.

It was so crazy. And Max versus Deporia is going to be wild.

Yeah, it's going to be great.

That is a wild fight. Deporia is a fucking savage.

Yeah, he's a savage.

He's so savage, which brings me to what I was going to say about Jamal. I'm very sad that he hurt his knee, you know, I certainly want him to get better, but I did not like him taking that fight with you so quickly after getting ko'd by Pereira.

No.

Nope, I don't like guys taking fights real quickly. I mean, I like it for you, but I don't like it for him. I don't think it's smart, I think you feel OK, but I don't think you're OK.

Yeah.

That's real, man. You know, you've been stopped before, you know what it's like? It's like you're not quite right for a long time after that.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know, man, when it happened and when they called me and told me that this was the situation. That was a lot of the fans response. And then people that I know they're like, dude, what's wrong with this guy? And I'm like, Honestly, my response to everybody was like, Dude, that's none of my business.

Oh yeah, that's him, definitely.

OK, cool, dude, do you? I'm going to continue to do me.

Look, he might be fine. I mean, he got clipped and dropped, and then he got beaten up when he was on the ground, and he stood right back up afterwards. Maybe he didn't get a concussion, maybe he just got dinged, who knows?

What was the result of that one? Who did he fight? Do you remember?

I forget see if you find Mirko's record. But then he eventually fought Randleman again and then choked him.

Damn, I miss those, I miss those days. Those days were wild. I remember when I first introduced to MMA and seeing Krokop throw those high kicks.

Oh my god.

And just folding people, Oh my God, bro, oh my God.

Folding people, folding people to the body, folding people to the head, anywhere. So where does it go all the way back?

And then, in May, he fights in May, a month later.

A month later.

He takes a month break, comes back in July.

Yeah, bro, they were fighting.

He fights another month later.

He fights in August, and then again in October, and again in December, and then again in February, he fights Mark Coleman.

Holy shit man, oh my god.

Those guys were getting after it.

Krokop's Hall of Famer Right? Oh yeah, 100 100%.

100 Hall of Famer. And back then those guys weren't, they were like the whole thing of pride back then. They didn't get called. Until, like, two weeks before the fight, no one even knew who was on the card.

They didn't even know.

No, they all like it was all like, everybody just had to train and get ready.

Yeah, wasn't it? Just like the guys were training? And then they get a call and then they'd say, like, x amount of money and they're like, Cool, we'll be there and they'd show up.

And a lot of you got paid in cash.

In cash, right? So they're like, Yeah, I'll go get that bag.

They had corner men that were like taping cash bundles to their body, taping cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did hear stories about that, I heard a lot of stories about that man. What a time.

It was a wild time.

It'd be cool if it was still kind of like that, I know, like if they had leagues that were like that, that would be cool.

Well, it would be cool if there was an organization that was competing with the UFC at that level. Yeah, like that pride was at the time, like Saitama Super Arena, yeah.

Yeah.

Full for pride nuts. And then, you know, the scandals, the yakuza, all that stuff, and it just kind of goes away. But at one point in time, they were bigger than the UFC, it was huge.

Yeah, when I got into MMA, I think I watched more Pride than I did UFC and at the time it wasn't live. Right right. Like, if I had to go buy a DVD from ZIA Records or something, it's like, Yeah, of course, I'm going to buy the Pride ones.

Sometimes it'd be a pride event and you'd have to stay offline because you'd find out the results and they wouldn't air it for a while later. Oh shit, like days, maybe even weeks later.

Yeah, that was before. I wasn't even that deep into the game yet, I was just watching like DVDs and YouTube videos, I think.

And they would have them sometimes live, and, you know, it would be live in America, so you'd have to watch it like 4 o'clock in the morning.

Oh my god.

Yeah.

Were you one of those guys?

Yeah, I had a bunch of guys over, a bunch of guys from jiu-jitsu came over to my house. We all watched it at like 4 o'clock in the morning.

That's pretty sick. Well, speaking of jiu-jitsu, I'm going to compete in world Masters.

Really, when are you doing that?

It's the end of August in Vegas.

The only thing that makes me nervous about stuff like that is when a guy.

It's not going to happen so.

You say that, but.

No, no, no, it's not going to happen. I mean, like, so this is something that I'm trying to just do for myself to like, man, I've been training like a dog, you know?

What belt do you know?

I'm purple, so I've been training like a dog. Gi I feel good. yeah, Gi, yeah.

Khalil, you're a savage. Once you get in there, you're going to be going home.

Why are you lying to me? Why are you staring me in the eye?

You're a straight-up killer. why are you lying to me?

I am a killer, but I think it's a little bit different when it comes to, like, going in here and competing with jiu-jitsu. I think, for me, the reason why I kind of made this decision is, and I mean, it all. Like it's 170-something bucks or whatever to register, right? Like, I could just say at the last minute, like, Nah, you know, I'm not going to do it. But I think it's another way for me to get out and like and hang out with the fans. Dude like, I have a lot of fans in the jiu-jitsu community as well.

It makes me think about Cub Swanson. Remember Cub Swanson blew out his ACL in a grappling competition.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, he blew out his ACL in a grappling competition. I think it was no GI. And it was, you know, when it was a couple years back. And Cub was, you know, doing really well. And for sure, it slowed his momentum. He had to get surgery.

See, now you're like, freaking me out. I mean, I thought about it, right? The thought of injury came up.

Dude, don't, I'll tell you right now, don't do it. it's not worth it. Come on, Joe, listen, you probably will be fine.

If not.

If not.

Then it's another.

You know how many videos people have sent me over the last week of dudes getting heel hooked with their leg breaks? Snaps like hard, loud cracks.

No, dude, I hate that shit.

The leg lock game right now is so high, it's so high level and I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Creates this unnatural control.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'll give it more thought.

The other thing is it's like scrambles, like in scrambles, knees blow out. Yeah, you know, because scrambles in the gym and scrambles in training are different. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In competition.

In competition, yeah, you're way more like you're going to push 100 in competition.

Yeah, more explosive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, weird stuff happens.

Yeah, weird shit happens, it's not worth it.

Dude, you're right there. yeah, you're right there. you're right there, fuck.

I was so sure until I had this conversation with you.

Don't please it. if I can talk you out of doing it, please listen, imagine you do that, you blow out an ACL.

Yeah, then I'm an idiot.

Yeah, it makes no sense for no reason.

Ah, fuck Joe.

It's not worth it. Okay, I would not be snowboarding, I would not be doing anything. Oh, that's okay, okay, okay.

You guys heard it, Joe Rogan just talked me out of competing in jiu-jitsu worlds.

Thank God, I did. I'm glad you got to listen to me. Wow, and a lot of jiu-jitsu guys are like, Oh you fucking pussy, shut up, Rogan.

Nah, but here's the thing. Like, I would hate to have this conversation with you. And you'd be so like, adamant and passionate about like, dude, don't do it. And then something did happen and I....

Well, I'd hate to even try now because I put it in your head, I don't want that to be in your head. If you want to do it, maybe I'll talk to you again and try to, like, shoot me a text, you're going to be fine dude.

I've been trying to stay, you know, somewhat active. It's crazy that you say, like, snowboarding shit, because I picked up skiing last year. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Well, golf is a good one. Yeah, not going to get hurt doing golf.

Not going to get hurt doing that, so I'll just stick to that.

Look at fucking Trump, he's 80 years old, he's out there playing golf.

What a maniac, yeah, dude.

Get shot in the ears on the course the next day.

But that's actually one thing that I found out about skiing, too, because, like, here's the thing, yeah, skiing anything like that can be dangerous. But when I was out there, I didn't see anybody over the age of 40 on a snowboard.

Yeah.

You know? And I'm like, Okay, I want to pick up things that I can do for a long time, I want to be active now, like ever since, I made the change and became a fighter and all these things, and, like, my life's changed.

I stopped skiing a couple years ago because I wiped out bad and it was not my fault. I was going around a turn and this lady didn't know how to ski and she was kind of like sliding into the trail. And I had two decisions.

Oh, that's where I broke my leg, that's where I broke my knee. Same spot.

Yeah, mine was not bad, it was just a crack, but I went to the doctor. I'm like, man, something's wrong.

Yeah.

There's nothing they can do about it, they said. It'll be okay in six weeks, but I'm like, fuck, skiing, I'm done. And I was like, the rest of the day, I was out of it.

If you've taken blows to the head before and things like that, you can feel that.

That was like, harder than I think I've ever been kicked in the head. Yeah, it was bang, it was like, Oh, fuck man, and I was just dizzy the whole day.

How has your training been going? What have you been doing training-wise?

Well, like I said, my knee still fucks with me and so that's kept me from doing jujitsu. Because it's just I don't want to get injured and I'm 56, and as you get older, injuries take fucking forever to come back from.

It was terrifying to be up there, I was so nervous.

The show went great. People probably didn't even notice if they weren't in the front row and see my leg shaking, yeah.

So you've got this Netflix special thing coming up. Yeah, did you film it already? No, it's live.

It's live Saturday night.

Dude like, Where do I find it on Netflix?

It'll be on Netflix, okay, Saturday night.

Yeah, I'm excited to see that.

It's going to be fun.

I was actually kind of looking at some stuff, like, knowing, you know, like, a few weeks, a month in advance. I'm going to be here. And I'm like, I want to see some of Joe Rogan's like comedy shit, but I couldn't find a lot of, like, recent stuff.

I'm going to put some of it online today, I have a clip that Netflix sent today that I'm going to put online. But I haven't done a special in six years because I was supposed to do a special right when the pandemic broke out, okay?

Oh yeah.

This Saturday, 9 o'clock.

Saturday, 9 o'clock.

9 o'Clock Texas time, 7 o'Clock Nevada time.

Okay, we're going to have a watch party at my house. should be fun. Yeah, I'm going to have some friends over. that would be cool, man.

I'm excited for it.

Yeah, I've been liking comedy a little bit more lately.

It's a good relief for a fighter.

Yeah, I'm such a like, serious guy, fucking sensitive and serious, you know? I take everything to heart. But I've noticed that. Like, just opening up and like, watching other guys do standup and stuff is really fun. Like, just being able to laugh about certain shit is really cool, you know?

How long has he been doing it?

A few years now, I think he's a blue belt, blue or purple belt.

Wow, pretty good.

We trained at the PI, we rolled, that's awesome, super cool, had some good rounds.

Want to know who it was?

Yeah, sure.

Ronnie's a good dude, man.

Yeah.

Super cool, very funny guy. I love his angry comedy, yeah.

It's so good.

He's just angry at everybody being so stupid.

So stupid, like his napkins part, he was saying something about Americans, like, just always, so many fucking napkins, napkins, and like screens, screens, it's funny, it's very relevant.

He's a smart dude. It's a good time for comedy, Yeah, it is, because also whenever the world is about to be on fire and everything's going crazy everywhere you look, it's a good time for comedy. Because there's so much shit to talk about.

Yeah.

Don't do it.

Tournament.

Please don't do it, I wouldn't ski either, I tell you, don't ski, you're just too close.

Yeah, too close.

You're too close to, like, one of the most important things that a combat sports athlete could ever possibly achieve. Yeah, you're so close. Like the UFC champion is the greatest fighter on Earth. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Yeah, yeah, so just stay, yeah, stay safe.

Just keep training, man, keep training, keep training, stay focused, keep improving. You know, every time I see you, you're better, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you love that one, I love it. fuck, I love it.

He still remembers that one dude, Yeah, because I'd seen you fight before and I knew you were good, but there was like, something happened.

Yeah, and then even in that fight, yeah, there was like 75 low kicks landed, like things like that.

It was the smoothness to it too, yeah, the technique.

It changed me, dude. Yeah, like, I mean, we talked about it. Yeah, Thailand was like one of the best things for me.

Did you go back?

I went back after the Smith fight, but I went back for just pure like, let me just get re-tapped in. And then I went there and then that's where Mia and I. We got married there, like we had a Thai ceremony, it was really cool. Oh, that's cool.

That's wild.

Than anywhere else.

Well, a lot of people moved there just because it's so cheap.

Have you seen it? I mean, everybody's there now, man.

Yeah.

Everybody's there now, so yeah, it's been cool. I still stay active in that area home, I've been working on some new stuff. I'm very excited for whenever I do fight again, because I know it's just, I know it's a better version of me, man.

Well, I think you've had some moments in the past where you weren't like, fully locked in. Yeah, and then, but you've always come back from those and been locked in in the next fight.

Yeah.

You know? So I think now you realize, like, Hey, this is it, this is the push for glory.

I think one, I don't know if a lot of people realize this, but I've. I've pretty much spent my entire career in the UFC. When I got into the Ultimate Fighter, I had three professional fights.

That's crazy.

Yeah, dude, I got in the Ultimate Fighter 3 and 0. I had all my fights in the RFA in the beginning, LFA now at middleweight and then Ultimate Fighter light heavyweight. Season comes up and I'm like, Okay, fuck it, I'll try out.

That is a crazy place to develop.

Crazy place to develop.

So many guys are coming in now, the UFC like 21 fights.

21 fights, 15 and 0. They've built their style and they've gone through all the adversity before. Then they get to the big show. It's like, No dude.

That was a huge one because Gokan had so much hype coming in from Glory champion K-1, Gokan was a legend.

So it's been kind of cool to finally get to that spot where I feel good. I feel good, I'm confident in what I can do now, I know exactly where I'm going.

Well, the work showed in the Anthony Smith fight, it really did. This trajectory that you're on showed that you're on a new level.

Yeah, dude, new level, you look, focused, new level, for sure. One thing that was kind of crazy. That helped me for the preparation of that fight because he took it last minute.

Oh, it was like shooting in a range.

Yeah, and it just changed a lot. In what way?

Wow.

So like it was, it really like I was able to kind of pull from that experience and then bring it into my fight. But then also, not only that, I was also thinking about, like the things that this guy was telling me when it came to. Like, when they're in combat, when they're clearing buildings and so, like, just emotionally, it's so crazy, dude. Before that fight, my strength and conditioning coach Lorenzo, he's a big, big shooter guy, ex-military, you know, but big on shooting, big on self-defense.

Oh, wow.

And I'm just like, just rocking back and forth, and I'm like, yeah.

That's an interesting visualization tool because you think about it like, that's really how you want your strikes to land. You want them to be almost instantaneous from the time you pull the trigger.

From the time you pull the trigger, yeah, and you like,—.

What's your right hand?

Right hand was—wasn't even a weapon. It was like I wasn't looking at it like that. It was kind of more like range, really. yeah, range finder.

Precision the precision instantaneous.

Instantaneous. Yeah, you know what I mean, like, not a lot of recoil, right?

Yeah.

Sting, sting, like, just like that.

That's interesting to visualize it that way. Mm-hmm, you know, because, you know, sometimes you see guys throwing punches at a lower level and you see them like grit and swing and everything's wide. And hoping it lands, yeah.

No, I was very intentional with every movement, every strike in that fight so far, that's my favorite one. Before that, it was Eric Anders. Because it was like, Oh, got to do some muay Thai, but this one, some new shit, this one. I still got to throw some, you know, Thai-style type of stuff. As soon as, like, my posture kind of relaxed.

That's interesting, yeah, that's a great way to think about it, really, you know?

Yeah.

It's a great way to visualize, like the instantaneous response pow.

Yeah, yeah, but that's me, dude. Every time, every fight, something different.

Right?

I'm more of an artist because I'm using—you know, I need it, right? like I'm naturally an artist. So like, I need to find ways to like. How do I express this? Mm-hmm?

That comes out in fights, art, it really—it is the right term when people call it martial arts. And you know, people have had arguments like, that's not an art, it's an art to people who understand it. Because when you watch a person land a beautiful combination, that's artwork that's like, Ooh, it's pretty.

Like, Oh yeah, oh, it's pretty. Yeah, yeah.

You know, you watch someone land something good, it's like, that's pretty, yeah.

You know, and I don't—I don't see a lot of it as much anymore. I think that's why I haven't. —I've been watching fights for different reasons nowadays, you know, like I'm watching light heavyweights fight.

Well, Anderson, in particular, he was an artist. Oh yeah, like when he landed that front kick to Vitor's face, like that was a piece of art.

Piece of art, beautiful.

And it's just the timing involved in that, and then just the expression bop, just landing it, setting it up. Yeah, have you thought about going to middleweight?

I have.

What do you look around at?

Well, I mean, right now like under 230, over 220.

So you're not an enormous light heavyweight?

No, no, no, I'm probably one of the shorter ones. Yeah, for sure, and I've thought about middleweight. But like, I've done that Dexa scan thing at the PI and my body was like, just dense, like no water, just bone and muscle.

Oh God, so you've got to get to death's door.

Yeah, so I've done it, like at the beginning of my career and in amateur days. I did fight at 185, but it was hell. And so now, like, I like to eat, man.

Yeah, and honestly, you're doing great.

Yeah, and I like to train.

I think there should be way more weight classes. I really, really do. yeah, I think there should be one every 10 pounds, yeah.

Minimum, that'd be nice.

Look at boxing, yeah, there's a reason why there's a 147 and a 154 and a 160 mm-hmm. It's because there really is a difference. Gene a legitimate in their prime 154 and a 160..

Yeah, for sure.

People—it's just—that's how it should be, and when you get a gap like 85 to 205, that's crazy, that's too big.

Yeah, that's a big gap, that's too big, that's a really big gap.

It's too big and then another 25 pounds, I mean, you know, 205 to 265 is nuts.

Weight cutting is trash, dude, it's death. I don't like it. I still like it. okay, so I walk around 220, 230, blah, blah, blah, but I still don't necessarily cut weight.

Oh, that's great.

To lose one pound.

So that's why you're so physically perfect when you're fighting.

Yeah, dude, I don't—and that's why, like, five rounds for me, like, I feel like it's going to be nothing. Because I train year-round at the weight, when I rehydrate, I'm back up to 225. Blah, blah, blah, where I'm used to carrying my weight, right? So when I'm doing all my drills, when I'm running and when I'm jumping, and when I'm doing all of the stuff that I'm doing. To get better physically, that same person is the same person that's stepping in the cage.

That's great.

You know, like, I just don't—I don't like it. I don't think that it gives anybody the advantage. I really don't like a guy who's, you know, Oh, I'm going to cut down to 155. Like, what do you walk around?

You're also going to not be able to take shots as well.

You're not going to be able to take shots as well, you know, long term, like, if you really want to do this, if you really want to be doing this long term, it's not going to be good for you. You know what I mean? Like, I can only imagine that like at like a smaller level, like, or like at a deeper level. It's probably bad for your body.

Do you think there's a reasonable way to stop weight cutting? Because when WME bought the UFC, I had a conversation with Ari and I told him, You know what I would do? I was like, this is what I would do. If I was running the show, I'd get rid of weight cutting, I'd figure out a way.

That's still bullshit.

What do you hear about it?

I can't give an educated. I don't have all the facts right now. But from what I've heard is that from the fighters that I have friends. In one, they just say it's bullshit. And there's also ways around it. They can, for instance, they test the hydration in your urine to be able to be like, okay. If we detect that you're dehydrated, then that proves that you're cutting weight. But a lot of these guys will dehydrate. They'll cut weight and then they'll chug a bunch of water and just hold their piss. You get what I mean, just so that wouldn't, whatever, I don't know.

So there's some shenanigans.

There's some shenanigans, I think. That one thing that people that they could do as far as this weight cutting thing, just how they randomly test us. We don't know when USADA's coming, or we don't know when anti-doping's coming weigh us, too, yes.

When Alex fought Izzy, he weighed in at 85 and then he made it into the cage at 226.

226.

Nuts.

Yeah.

Nuts.

Which is crazy.

That's 40 pounds, man.

That's so much depletion.

That's so crazy.

That's so crazy, that's so crazy, you know what I mean? Yeah, he gained a lot of weight, but also like, how much? Let's look at the other side of that, how much did he deplete? The day before? He was supposed to fight Israel Adesanya, the heavyweight or the middleweight fucking champion.

And when Izzy knocked him out, maybe that had a factor.

I'm almost positive that a lot of these knockouts and shit do happen from weight cuts.

I think so, man, I think so, too.

Yeah, and then, like, our ability to go x amount of rounds, blah, blah, blah. Like, I think that it all plays a factor, man.

Especially with the inability to use IVs.

Yeah, yeah.

Because they say that the brain takes the longest time to rehydrate. You rehydrate your body in 24 hours, but your brain takes like 48..

Yeah, they do a good job at, like, giving us all the stuff, you know, like all these liquids and things like that. Like, they do their job, the UFC always does their job. But there can be, there can be some type of change made, Hopefully there is, you know?

No one is thinking about it at all, there's no attempts at all to do it.

It's just the culture, yeah, there's just like people are just okay, this is what we do, this is the culture.

I mean, it's happened that way for so long that they just have this in their head, yeah.

Why would they change it?

Yeah, why would they change it? I just think there's a lot of things that could be done differently. And I think the hydration thing is a real big one. I think that's a that's a giant one because it does. It's. It's so bad for the performance of the athletes because it's going to weaken you 100%.

Wow, yeah, we see it right. These, we see these guys. I have to pull out the night before or whatever because they are the day of, yeah.

Speaking of hydration, try this, man, what's this? This is my drink.

Kill cliff, Kill cliff Octane CBD. Oh, I have to read the ingredients.

Oh, I think it's okay, Dana takes it, Dana drinks it, it's legit, it's good.

Your company?

Yeah, well, I'm one of the owners of the company. But this one I came up with me and my friend Cam, this one's called Elk Blood.

Elk Blood, Spicy Cherry.

It's good cheers, but this is all cheers. This is all a legit, clean ingredients and 25 milligrams of CBD that tastes great.

No, not too sweet at all.

A little spice to it.

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

I think if the UFC was going to do anything differently, that would be the first one that I would say, the second one that I would say-.

Pay structure.

Pay structure for sure.

I knew I heard you talk about that before.

They should be getting more money 100. Also, I don't like the win bonus thing.

That's what I meant, that's what I meant. I think the win bonus thing is like, I hate it, it does suck. I did hear you talk about that.

Especially with bad decisions.

Yeah, it sucks bad decisions and then you get half your money, crazy half, yeah.

Especially a split decision.

Half, yeah.

That's nuts.

Yeah.

The other thing that they need to do, and I really think this could be done, cover the tips of the fingers. Yeah, there's no reason why these fingers need to be exposed.

Okay, so I've been testing, it's been pretty cool, I've been the guy testing all of the new gloves. Like with Ember from the UFC. One of the slight changes that they've made is the padding in the glove provides a little bit more curvature towards the fingers.

Going blind?

I got poked the last camp actually preparing for Jamal Hill, and it cut the entire top eyelid and I was like, This is the scariest shit ever.

I don't get it. When they said they were going to have new gloves, they seem real similar to me. Trevor Whitman, in my opinion, has the best gloves.

The Onyx, yeah.

I think they're the best MMA gloves, they had some sort of. There was some negotiation with Trevor, but he wanted more money than they were willing to give. Apparently there's a lot of money.

I don't know.

But I think it should be different than that. Even I think it should be like the Trevor Whitman gloves. But where the fingertips are, I think you cover it with just a piece of leather.

Just a leather, yeah, yeah, with like, a little sliver, you can just, yeah.

So it goes in there.

Because you can still grapple. Yes, you just can't spread the fingers.

Exactly why would you spread the fingers anyway?

Almost like mittens, exactly like mittens, exactly like mittens, but yeah, it's a piece of leather, yeah.

Then you still have to worry about the thumb, yeah, but that's going to cut down, think about the percentage that it'll cut down on finger pokes, yeah.

We don't see a lot of thumb.

So if it's this, but if it has that, then it's not going to go in the eye if it's a cover and the cover. Like, you never grapple like this, you never close your fingers together ever, so what would it prevent in grappling nothing?

Yeah.

It seems like a pretty clear solution.

Yeah, it's just crazy, like anything, right? There's just a lot of like, oh, just like politics. And yeah, I think that that is one of the things that could have been changed.

Well, it's better, everybody says it's better.

Yeah, it's better, it's lighter.

It's not perfect. Is it lighter? How much lighter?

How much lighter? It's? 3.5..

Oh, half ounce.

Yeah, half ounce lighter wrist is a little bit different, like the straps, different. The inside of the knuckle part here is padded now.

Right, right, is your hands more protected?

Yeah, hands more protected. You can feel the half ounce or like the you can feel that really, you can feel that.

That's crazy.

Yeah, so, um, yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's. It's a decent glove, the only thing that we kind of had some issues with in the beginning. If you guys saw on the Makachev fight, uh, the logo was coming off.

Oh, really interesting.