Get Fed Up With Your Debt and Get RID of It!
2024-07-30 02:01:47
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey, personality, number one, best-selling author, breaking free from broke. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. You jump in, we'll talk about you right in front of you.
Josh is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Josh, what's up?
Hi, hope you guys are well.
Better than we deserve, brother. How can we help?
First, thanks for your time. My question is, how should me and my wife go from two incomes to zero?
What do you mean? That's so confusing.
How do we go from both...
What happened? Tell me what the flip's going on. I don't understand.
So I lost my job yesterday. Oh, why? Well,
a lot of details. Basically, I wasn't performing the job up to snuff.
Okay. What were you making?
Forty grand.
What were you doing?
I was a market research assistant.
Okay. And how long had you been in the job?
Six months.
Okay. And she lost her job yesterday, too?
No. She was actually planning to leave. She gave her notice about two weeks ago, and she's working through mid-August.
Oof. So just really bad timing.
Why was she leaving?
She had been just overwhelmed with the work, and she didn't like it. So she was trying to pursue something that made her happy, and she was...
And nothing was lined up.
But she doesn't have a new job. She just quit.
Correct.
Wow.
Well, that decision came back to bite you. Okay. Yeah, like you're supposed to have the boat pull up to the dock before you jump off the dock. Yeah, and I had my boat there. You get wet, otherwise.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah. My boat was there, and then it sank before she could...
Not yours. Hers. Oh, oh. Yeah. Have the new job before you give notice.
Oh, she was going to not work for a few months. Why? I made enough. Because I made enough to cover all of our bills.
Forty grand? Yeah, you're rolling in it.
You guys have kids? No. Do you have any debt?
Only one student loan that's not due until November 2025..
How old are you two?
We're early 30s. I'm 33.. She's 32..
Okay. All right. So the situation is that you have two career crises simultaneously. And the answer is that there is a short-term answer and a long-term answer. The short-term answer is both of you.
go get six part-time jobs today.
Today. I want you delivering pizzas, cutting grass, walking dogs, picking up dog poop, cleaning toilets. I don't care. I want you two working hard today. Which is something neither one of you have been doing a lot of lately.
Can I give you some more details about kind of what happened with my job?
How does that affect what you've got to do from today forward?
I have to determine if I can still work.
Okay. All right.
My father passed away in April.
And I have a bunch of mental health disabilities.
And since he passed away, I've been going through trauma therapy and I got diagnosed with PTSD today.
And I'm kind of broken a little bit because I've been having panic attacks. And that's the reason I lost my job is because my mental health has deteriorated to so much I couldn't understand what they wanted.
And I was doing really, really well. And then my mental health just fell apart. Mourning an abusive parent is another beast entirely.
Yeah, it is. We work very, very hard.
I'm sorry. It's okay. I didn't want to give too much info at the beginning.
It affects the advice. So you're wise to do that.
All right. There's a couple things here. Number one.
Can I give you one piece of info as well?
Please, please. That's okay.
Our overhead is extremely, extremely low. We only spend about $500 on bills. And we live for free, because we live in a family home that's paid for, so we don't have very many bills. So that's why we have the safety of three to six months savings, because we have over a year and a half savings just to live on. But we're not going to.
But that's the security blanket we had, so that she left her job. And then my dad died and just it all blew up.
Okay. All right.
So the thing is, you have to pursue a path of healing for long term. Part of extreme trauma. I'm not the therapist. That would be Deloney. He's not here today.
But part of dealing with trauma is he talks about it all the time. Facts are your friends. And the thing that we do know from the financial side of the equation is that panic attacks are made worse when you have no income and you're broke and you have no sense of purpose. So the dignity that hard work gives you, even if it's mindless work, can actually help with dealing with depression, anxiety and panic attacks. That's what Deloney tells us.
And that's also, from a very practical standpoint, what we've seen, because being afraid about money while you're afraid about and dealing with all the other trauma issues at the same time makes it worse. Does that make any sense?
Yeah. And the great thing is, I'm not worried about money in the least.
We, like I said, are bill our overhead way more.
I got that. I got that. But you should be. You're 30 years old and you have no income coming in. That should worry you.
I don't want you panicking over it. And I'm not trying to throw you into a tizzy here. But you shouldn't. You know, you're pretty chill about something you shouldn't be chill about. And oh, by the way, so is your wife.
OK, let me let me rewind just a second. OK, my husband is dealing with mental health issues. His dad passed away last April, several months ago. That has made his mental health issues and trauma and PTSD and panic attacks come to the forefront. He's really not functioning well at work.
So what am I going to do? I'm going to quit my job because I don't like it.
I ask.
That's completely unwise.
And and ridiculous. Yeah. Do what?
I take the blame.
Why would you take the blame?
He said he asked her to quit her job.
Yeah. OK.
And, by the way, losing the job is more trauma. That's another trauma that you've got to add to this now.
Both of you. being gainfully employed, short term and long term, as soon as possible is helpful to mental health issues. It's also wise. I'm going to sit at home and try to heal on my couch. While doing nothing and my money runs out is not a good mental health plan.
It's not a good financial plan. It's not a career plan. So you guys need to go back to work at some level, whatever level you can function. And she needs to yesterday.
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George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225..
It's a free call. And some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Dave is in Orlando. Hi, Dave. How are you?
Dave, I'm wonderful. How are you?
Better than I deserve. How can I help?
Well, so first thing I want to say is thank you so much. Because my wife and I followed your steps and we were debt free. And have been debt free for quite a while. Good. The reason I'm calling is I live in the villages.
I'm widowed, unfortunately. Two years ago my wife passed away. I'm sorry. I have no children. So when I go, everything is basically going to get liquidated.
And given away as donations and things like that. My house is paid off. It's worth about $410, $420.. And I want to get your opinion on, in my situation, if you think I could get a reverse mortgage to go out and have some fun with that money.
You have any other money?
Yeah, I'm good, yes.
Well, what's good? How much money do you have?
Well, I've probably got about $1.2 million.
In your mutual funds, in your retirement accounts?
Mutual funds, retirement accounts.
And how old are you?
I'm 65..
Okay. And so why would we not use $1.2 million for a fund?
Well, I'm just saying I hate to see a lump sum of $410,000 just get liquidated and donated out there. If there is an opportunity to go, maybe grab a little bit of that cash and go on a long trip or something like that, I just want to find out, if not a reverse mortgage, do you have any other advice as to how I would be able to get my hands on some of those funds? Just for enjoyment, because it's just sitting out there.
Well, you've got $1.2 sitting there too.
Yeah, I know.
So you've got a lot of enjoyment ahead of you.
Yeah.
Congratulations, by the way. You've done very well. Thank you. Okay, number one, let's just state up front, reverse mortgages are a very bad product. Okay.
Okay. They have higher interest, higher fees, and a higher foreclosure rate than any other type of mortgage.
And, of course, there is an end to it. They'll only go to about 60, 65%, George?
Yes, I believe so.
The loan to value on it. And so you really can't get that much of this out. But I understand the basis for your question. Here's the problem with your question. You're 65 over the next 20 years if you live to be 85, which if you're healthy, actually there's a fairly good statistical case to be made that you would live that long.
Do you have any major health problems?
Just a little bit of high blood pressure, as with all of us, a little overweight, but nothing other than that.
Yeah, okay. Nothing, 20 pounds dropped wouldn't fix.
I don't know a guy like that, but anyway.
Yeah, you and I are about the same age. Anyway, so what would I do in your situation? The problem is if you put this property in danger by having debt on it of any kind, or you sell it to cash out of it, then you're very vulnerable in the largest, most expensive item on your budget, which is housing. Housing goes up every year. if you haven't done something to lock in the cost.
By owning the $400,000 property, you've locked in all your costs. So you've got a very stable retirement situation.
No, I would not touch it, because you're going to need a place to live for 20 years. And if you want to mortgage it the last two years that you're alive, if you happen to know what that is, if you want to mortgage it and go, blow the money somewhere, that's fine. But you've pretty much got to blow a million six between now and the time you die if you don't want to leave anything.
Okay, yeah.
What is your retirement income now? Where is it coming from?
I'm bringing home about six grand a month.
From what?
Social Security and some current investments that are paying off for me now, some annuities and stuff like that.
So you're not even touching the 1.2?.
I'm touching it a little bit, but it was kind of built to start paying me after I turned 65.. And I just recently turned 65, so over the next few months, things are going to start paying out.
Okay, so you could set up a situation where you had a $200,000 a month, $200,000 a year income. pretty easy. Yeah, yeah. And really, you would be deteriorating it, maybe, but not a bunch. Okay.
And with your other income, that's coming in too. And you can do anything you want to do with $200,000 probably.
Yeah.
And not really mess up everything here. Now again, if I were in your situation, the last thing I would spend through would be the house. If you want to blow some money and have some fun, blow through the million too. Obviously, leaving yourself enough to eat. Of course.
In your ancient years.
How much are we talking here? You said you want to go on a fun trip. Is this like $10,000, $20,000??
He just doesn't want to leave this. He doesn't want to sit around doing nothing and leave all this money to nobody that he cares about. Correct. That's the bottom line. So if you could actually figure out a way to have spent through almost all of it by the day you die, you'd be happy.
That'd be your mathematical goal.
That is my goal, yeah.
Only we knew that date. That would make things a lot easier for us.
I'd lay out a 20-year game plan using the rate of return on your investment portfolio and have a 20-year game plan. And so, okay, that dictates if I want this 1.2 at a current growth rate of 11% on the mutual funds or whatever, whatever growth rate you want to use, I need to spend X number of dollars or give away X number of dollars while I'm alive per year to end up with nothing when I'm 85, but a paid-for condo.
That makes sense. Yeah.
You could kind of back out a portfolio game plan that way. It's just an aggressive spend where you've been the opposite for your whole life. That's how you've got a $1.6 million net worth.
And barely touched it. It's amazing. That's impressive.
I think you'll get joy out of doing some things generously with the money and spending some of the money on just fun stuff, way in excess of what you're used to.
It doesn't sound like he's been spending a lot.
No, that's my point.
He's not broke, so there's no need to add risk into his life at this juncture.
The house should be the last thing you mess with, though, because that's your point of sustainability. That gives you a place to live in peace, no matter how old you are. And I guess I'm going to add one other thing. Because, Dave, the other thing that Sharon and I are doing, and our net worth is even more zeros, and you're at a place you can do this too, you don't need to go to a nursing home. If something happens, you can prearrange with whoever, friends or family or around you to help you hire full-time help.
And you can stay in that condo the rest of your life. And literally into your last days. And so you can hire a medical butler.
And have some higher quality of life at home.
And just have somebody there to serve you. And you've got your own assisted living game plan and a huge quality of life. You've got the money to do that. So I want you to hold back enough to cover that, too.
Well, Ian, think about over the next 30 years, property taxes will go up, his homeowner's insurance will probably go up. So there's some factors to think about.
Yeah, that's not going to—he's not going to run out of money on that. But if you want to budget in the last five years of your life an extra $100,000 a year for help, that would also be called fun. You know, that would also be called—because I guarantee you that if something happens that I'm debilitated or Sharon is, we're not going to assist a living. We don't need to. I mean, we've got a beautiful home, one level, elevator, whatever.
We can do whatever we want to do. And I'll just fill it up with help.
Get one of those StairMasters?
You can do what—don't need that. Don't need—got the elevator. But thanks, George.
I just thought it was cooler.
It's nothing cool about that at all, George. But the—anyway.
You see what I'm saying? You've got choices. You've got options. You self-insure and you just bring in—but people like us that have—like that Dave and this Dave that have gutted it from the ground up, we don't think about bringing in help. We're not those kind of people.
But you need to think about it. It's a good idea.
Absolutely.
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They say that memory is activated by smell. primarily. If you smell a certain smell, it'll take you back. The other thing that causes you to lock a memory in is deep emotion. If you're extremely angry or afraid, you have a clear lock on that memory.
I have a clear lock on that from 35 years ago. I remember exactly where I was and which Kroger. I could take you there right now, and I could show you the aisle. Wow. Like five aisles across.
I was the second one in.
Because that was the moment when I reached the point that I said, This isn't working. I'm standing there paying for food, and as I'm writing the check, because in those days you wrote a check, as I'm writing a check, I didn't know if there was money in the account, and I didn't know if there was money in the account if I was actually using money that should be used to pay the light bill. In other words, am I trading this bag of groceries for my electricity getting cut off?
It wasn't a panic attack. Today, you might call it that. I don't know. I just became overwhelmed with this feeling of how stupid I was and how this level of terror, this constant knot in my stomach about if I can't even cover basics of life because I'm buying another basic of life, food.
And that's the last time I had that feeling.
What happened after that?
Did a budget.
That was it? It took away all the anxiety and fear?
If you have a budget laid out and it says you spend, I'll make up a number today, 800 bucks on groceries, 700 bucks on groceries, 1,000 bucks on groceries, whatever it is. I don't know. You just put it in there. You're going to spend that. You also have the number in there for electricity.
So you know what you've got to spend on the grocery. and there's not all this chaos and stress and fear associated with every single money transaction, because it's simply a boring plan. Every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and it gets rid of that, I don't know, grocery store terror attack, whatever you call that. I don't know what you call that.
Spill anxiety.
I'm sure there's a technical, psychological term for it. It's probably got something to do with the price of eggs. But I distinctly remember being afraid.
Which is unlike you, I might add.
I'm not afraid very often. I'm not a fearful person in general. But everybody gets afraid sometimes. But I remember going, I'm out of control. And I've got little children and a wife, and I suck at this.
And you had a finance degree at that point.
I had a finance degree. I had made and lost a million dollars by then.
It didn't matter. I can't even buy a bag of freaking groceries without being overcome with fear, because I don't know what else I'm screwing up while I'm buying food for my family. That's so basic, right? That's so dumb. And so I went home, got a yellow pad out.
Okay, this is what we've got coming in this month. This is what we're going to spend. Every dollar had an assignment. We're a Christian, so we're going to tie our church. That's the first thing.
We're going to do our generosity. Then we're going to do this. Then we're going to do this. We're buying food. We're going to buy lights.
We're not doing all this other crap. We're not going out to eat until we've covered these basic walls. And we started living that way.
And we've not had a single month of our lives that we don't have a plan for every dollar of our – because it just gives me such peace. And that chaos is gone. That's why we named our app EveryDollar that we built.
Come a long way since the yellow pad.
Yeah, and there's like tens of millions of people using it. And I guess you're – and I hope most of you are having the same result, where you don't have this overwhelming fear that no plan and chaos gives you. Plan and no chaos, no disorganization, only organized planning, and all of a sudden peace comes. It sounds so nerdy, but it really happens that way, folks. And you feel like you've got a race.
Oh, absolutely, because you realize, oh, I thought we were spending –.
Where's the money been going?
We're not spending 200.. We spent 500.. We've got to do something about this.
Where is this money going?
So it helps you choose reality. Here's how much we actually made. Here's how much we need to spend in order to hit our goals.
And I remember sitting in a small group. I stopped by. I was over in Knoxville, Tennessee. And I was actually a suburb of Knoxville, up towards the mountains. And I stopped in this church that was doing a financial peace.
They said, hey, if you're coming – if you're around, come by. So I stopped in there doing a financial peace class. And I went and sat – I was sitting in a small group. There was about 15, 20 people sitting around. And I'm just sitting there listening to them, and they're some pretty funny stuff.
I mean, but this one old guy sitting there in overalls, and he's like, yeah, I've done figured out why we got no retirement. We've been eating it. We got to eat every freaking night. It's $1,200 last month. He goes, that budget's revealing.
That's amazing. It was a genius. You know, he's like, I know why we got no retirement. We've been eating it. It's exactly – that's a typical American right there.
Nothing's changed.
Plus or minus the overalls and the accent, but oh, come on.
I prefer the accent, though. It makes it better.
Well, it's a true story. I mean, it's exactly how it happened.
Were they weirded out that you were sitting in the class?
Yeah, yeah. That's weird. It was like Elvis showed up to your jam session or something, but yeah.
But anyway, they were – the guy was just – he's like, this thing's revealing.
It is kind of a light bulb moment.
When you sit down and you do a budget on your EveryDollar app, and you and your spouse are in agreement for the first time ever. maybe. You've had a sane discussion about money that didn't involve drama, hyperbole, and a knock-down, drag-out, freaking argument, right? So we actually are in agreement and alignment on our money instead of like, whatever you want to do, honey, with your eye roll, right? And that kind of crap, right?
That sounded personal. I feel like you've –.
Oh, that definitely has happened. I can promise you.
You've been on the business end of that line.
I've been on the other side of that one. It's like a financial – Whatever you want to do, honey, means I think you're stupid and you're about to wreck the car. Stop driving it that way. That's what that means. Those of you that don't know – if you don't speak passive-aggressive, that's what it means.
But the budget gets rid of every bit of this because it's like, you don't get to say I messed up the money because we did it together. If it's messed up, baby, you was in it too. That's right. We're both in this. We decided this crap together, and that's why this EveryDollar app is so freaking successful.
You guys go download this thing as fast as you can. You get it at the App Store for free and Google Play and all that, and you can go to EveryDollar.com if you want and do it on your desktop. I don't care. And if you want the upgrade version, it's a couple of bucks. It's not much, and you can connect to your bank, and it's got all the paycheck planning features and the baby step features in it and all that stuff.
But tens of millions of people are doing this now. It is the world's best budgeting app, and it was born because this redneck hillbilly, standing in line at Kroger 35 years ago, going, you're an idiot, talking to myself. I'm not living like this anymore. I don't want to be this scared anymore. I don't want to be this incompetent anymore.
I don't want this taste on the back of my tongue that tastes like regret. I don't want that anymore. And that's how this app was born. It's not like, well, we decided we're going to do a budgeting app. No, this is like, bull crap, this stuff stops now.
We need to do this. This stops now. And if you're there, we got the tool, baby. This will do it for you.
It is a financial epiphany. If you want to start reading from the same sheet music instead of having just musical chaos in the house wondering what the flip's going on, this is it. It's that shared thing we both look at for accountability and go, we both agreed to this, and if we stick to it, we're going to have this thing called money.
Yeah, and I promise you, if you're married, your spouse is not like you. If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary.
Y'all are different.
One person hates your spreadsheet, I guarantee it.
One of you is a nerd. One of you is a free spirit. One of you is a saver. One of you is a spender. One of you is screwing with the thermostat all the time, and the other one is like, don't you understand how thermostats work?
Don't touch it.
Leave your hands off the thermostat. If you turn it way down, it cools off faster. No, it doesn't. That's not how it works. This is how marriage works, boys and girls.
If opposites attract, you need to get on the same plan together. Everydollar.com. This is the Ramsey Show.
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George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Maya is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Maya, welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi, Dave. Hi, George. Thank you so much for having me.
Sure. What's up?
So I wanted to first say that I am 27, and I'm currently in my master's program, and I'm making $35,000 a year. At the end of my master's program, I'll make between $70,000 to $85,000..
Cool. What's your master's in?
It is in applied behavior analysis. Okay. So it's helping people change their behavior for autism work right now.
Excellent. Good career field. Good for you.
Thank you. Thank you. So I wanted to bring up a question. So I am in an awesome relationship, and with this individual, he is a soldier, and we've been dating for a year and a half now. We've gotten to meet each other, have him work financially, meet each other's families, and we've now started to have the conversation about what it would look like to come together, right?
He's been married before. He is open to being married again, and my hesitation is because we're both believers and because I know that I have $46,000 in debt, it was not my plan to come into a marriage with this amount of debt, right? So I'm starting the baby steps now, so when we do get married, it's not a baggage that I'm bringing into the marriage. So my question is, as a woman who has a boyfriend, right, how do I present this conversation to him of, hey, let's A, right, let's do it right, and get married after he comes back from deployment and he has a daughter and I've met his daughter first,
or do we think of another option? Because I don't want to shack, right? I don't want to play house at all.
Is that what he's wanting?
Yes. He said that it would be for the progression of our relationship. That's not a thing. Yeah.
Okay. She knows that. What's his rush to do this before getting married?
I think it's because he's seen me in a hard place for the past year financially, and I was living with my mom, and so by him seeing me in a hard place.
When does he come off deployment?
So he comes from deployment September of 25..
Where is he?
He's not currently deployed, but he is away. But he will deploy in January. He goes to Europe.
Okay. So if you were married, you would go with him to Europe?
No. It's a combat zone, so I wouldn't be able to go. Okay.
How long will he be deployed in January?
Nine months, so from January to September.
Okay. So if you were married, you would be at home with your husband, deployed for nine months?
Correct. Okay. And where he lives, my current job, I could just transfer there, because there's another office.
Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I would not delay marriage on your $46,000.. If both of you were of the same mind that we get rid of the debt as fast as we can, I'd get married regardless of where the debt is.
I would not use that. I agree with you. I would not move in together. And so then, based on that, we just got to figure out when we're going to get married, and it sounds like sooner rather than later. A good friend of mine's daughter got married a couple of years ago to a Green Beret, and four weeks after they were married, he was gone for seven months and can't even talk about where he was.
Mm-hmm. Totally. Top secret missions, right? And so because the Green Beret SEAL teams and those kinds of folks go places, and most people don't know they're there. So, matter of fact, that's the whole goal is, nobody knows.
they were there. They're in and out, and mysterious things happened, and then they come home. And so that kind of stuff. So that's what you're marrying, and you're going to have some of that. So she married, got married literally, and I think they had a month together, and then he was gone for seven or eight months.
And that was about four or five years ago, and they've got three kids now.
And he still goes out on missions, and a very young couple. But anyway, that's what you're signing up for, it sounds like. And so I'm saying they didn't wait until his deployment was over. They got married, and then he went on deployment. He took off and did a mission.
And he was gone for seven, eight, nine months, whatever it was. And so it's kind of like your guy. So all of that to say, if I'm in your all shoes, and you're both ready to get married, get married.
Okay.
Now. And it solves all your problems. But the progression of our relationship is absolute bull crap.
Yes, sir.
I don't think your debt needs to have anything to do with this. Exactly. You pay it off, as you can pay it off. If it's paid off before you're married, that's great. If not, it's our debt together.
I don't want you to feel like this is some shame and baggage you're bringing into this. Because guess what? He gets, Maya. That's way better than some student loan debt that we're going to knock out real quick.
Correct. Correct. One last question. I'm not a very forward woman, right? So I don't want to be the one to say, hey, I know we've had this conversation.
We've talked about this. Let's go get married. That's not me.
Well, what you can say is you said you wanted me to move in. And, you know, I've been praying about this and thinking about it. And, as a Christian, I think the Bible tells us not to do that. And so I'm not going to do it. So when you're ready to get married, we'll move in together.
When do you want to do that?
Okay.
But, I mean, you're answering his question. You're not asking him to get married. You're just saying, you know, I'm okay with the progression of our relationship being an engagement, a short engagement and a marriage. Followed by moving in.
And after that, we will live together. And that's how I'm willing to do it. That's what you told us. your values are. You said we're, you know, I'm a believer.
I'm a person of faith, meaning you want to follow what the book says and you think that God has a plan for your life. and it's not shacking up. It's what you said. And just tell him that. That's not forward.
It's answering his question. You're not forward. You're just responding.
And he's a soldier. He can handle direct feedback. Trust me.
It sounds like some of the stuff he's doing right now. He's in a situation where he gets direct feedback a lot.
I don't need it at home, too.
I suspect that. And just go, you know, if you want to talk about how we go forward in our relationship in that context, we can do that. But I need to give you the answer to your question. And that is I'm not going to live in the same house with you, sleep in the same bed with you until we're married. Because it's against my values.
And that's an okay answer. It's not prudish. It's just it's who you are. And you're allowed to be you, by the way.
And here's the alternative that we have seen time and time again. Well, Dave, we've been together for nine years and we live together, and I just don't know if he's ever going to put – that's what happens.
Yeah. Well, and, you know, I'm still confused about who owns the mustard.
Exactly.
We still split the grocery bill like we're roommates. Oh, gosh. You know, it's just nuts.
I can count on zero fingers how many times I Venmoed my wife. It's just not a way – it's not how God intended. It's not what Venmo is to be used for.
It's just weird. I can count on zero fingers. how many times I have Venmoed. There we go.
He's not there. Sharon prefers checks. Period. She's old school.
Period. I'm just saying. At all. At any time, to anyone ever. So I don't even have the app.
I don't even know how it works.
I would love for someone to Venmo request you for, like, dinner. We split that, Dave. I need 548..
It's happened. I just said, you know, here's 10.. You know, give it up. And so –.
Dave carries cash.
Now you owe me. So there we go.
You've got the Costanza.
I don't like being in debt.
Dave has the George Costanza wallet, but instead of cards, it's just filled with cash. It's amazing.
Not true. That's funny, but it's not true. This is the Ramsey Show.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. His book, number one bestseller, is Breaking Free from Broke. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. It's 888-825-5225..
Nyree is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Nyree, how are you?
Hi, I'm doing good. How are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
Yes, sir. So, I am 36 years old. I'm a single mom of four. I make about $55,000 annually. And I have about $28,000 in debt, credit card debt, personal loans, a title loan, and I'm kind of in the rear on my mortgage.
I recently filed bankruptcy in May, but I realized after watching your show, and I have your book, The Total Money Makeover, I decided to dismiss the bankruptcy case, because after I added up my debt, and then I looked at the fees that the lawyer was going to charge me over five years, I was like, no, like. ... So, I'm extremely excited, but I'm nervous at the same time, and I just wanted you guys to tell me, am I making the right decision?
Okay. Did you actually file bankruptcy?
So, May 2nd, the attorney filed the bankruptcy, and then recently, I'd say about two weeks ago, I told him to file a motion to dismiss.
Okay. So, you did. You filed bankruptcy. You filed a Chapter 13. A Chapter 13.
And then voluntarily dismissed your 13th. Okay. So, you're still behind on your mortgage.
Yes. I'm still behind. Okay. Mm-hmm.
All right.
Okay. Well, here's our rules. No one gets paid anything out of your income until you have food from the grocery store purchased for your family. Your lights and your water are paid. The gas for your car to get to work is paid, and we catch up your mortgage.
Don't pay any credit card bills. You got a title pawn on your car?
Yes, sir.
Oh, jeez. Okay.
And that's about $8,000..
Yeah. And you have a monthly on it, right?
Yes. And that's about $304..
Yeah. You better pay that one, because they'll pick that car up in about 30 seconds.
Yeah. They're not going to screw around.
And you got a personal loan as well?
I have personal loans.
Yeah. No. I have about... They don't get a dime. No, personal loans.
And credit cards don't get a dime. But you pay your car payment. You pay your lights, water, and we get your mortgage current before we do anything. Once your mortgage is...
So the credit cards are in collection.
Good. Just let them sit there. Okay. Okay. And we need to get on a written budget.
And how old are your babies?
Okay. So I have a five-year-old, eight-year-old, 12-year-old, and 15-year-old.
Okay.
All right. You got family in the area?
Barely. I have one good sister friend that helps me out when she can. But that's about it.
So I'm searching for a way, with a house full of kiddos, for you to get some extra income. Because the more income we have, the faster we turn this mess around. Agreed?
Agree. What are you doing? full-time for work?
So I get compensation from the military. That's my main income. I just got hired at Chick-fil-A. So I will be starting working with Chick-fil-A in three weeks. And I do DoorDash sometimes.
So that's, like, you know, some things that I'm trying to do.
So you've not been working a job?
So I have not been, like, working-working in the past year.
It's just been military compensation?
Yes. Okay.
Thank you for your service.
Thank you for your support.
I think the kiddos are going to have a single mom that now has a full-time job. Yep. And unless you're managing a Chick-fil-A or in a management program, if you're just going over there to fry chicken, no, thank you. You need a real job. You need a real career on top of your military disability.
Enough to be able to afford daycare or after-school care or whatever it is. So that you can go make another 55..
I want you to get a full-time job and get back to work. You know, you don't have a choice. You're a single mom that's broken and behind on her house. Mm-hmm. So sitting at home collecting the military is not cutting it for you.
It's not working for you. So we have to change the recipe if we want a different kind of cake here, right? And so, yeah, you need a full-time job to go with your military disability. And it needs to be a substantial good career for you that you look back 20 years later and you've made a lot of money and you've helped a lot of people and you've done a lot of good work. And I want you plugged into something like that.
I'm not mad at Chick-fil-A. We've been friends with those folks for a very long time at the company level, on a personal level, and I eat their chicken sandwiches all the time. So I'm not mad at all about Chick-fil-A. But I think you need more than that.
Yeah, we need an actual, sustainable career that she can sink her teeth into and get out of this debt fast. Because if she can even create 30 grand extra in income, well, we can knock this debt out in under a year.
Yeah. Now, Ray, I'm going to send you a book by Ken Coleman called Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And it has the Get Clear assessment in it. It'll give you a code and you'll jump online. I'm going to give it to you free.
And I want you to jump online and take that and pretend like that you were 18 years old or 19 or 20 years old and you didn't have any kids. And you said, OK, what am I going to do with my life? What's my career going to be? What's my future look like? Because you've been reacting to life rather than happening to life.
And it's gotten you into a mess. And so I want you to get on the other side of this and start dreaming again about what a prosperous, wealthy Nairie would look like and how she would get there. And that involves a, you know, it may be some steps to get to a different career a big time. Maybe you've always wanted to be an ex, whatever ex is. And you maybe need to go take a class or two or get a certification to be one of those.
I don't know what that thing is. But I want you to have some direction for you. You've lived your life for others so far. And it's not even serving them well. So I want you to...
Create some vision for what you want your life to be like.
Some big time goals of where I'm going to be in 20 years. Hang on. Krishna will pick up and we'll get you that. Good stuff. Good question.
Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Just to clarify for everybody listening, a Chapter 13 bankruptcy is a payment plan that takes 60 months to go through. You pay 100% of your student loans, 100% of any secured debt, like a car loan or title loan, as an example, your mortgage. Everything gets paid 100% except unsecured debt, which can be paid a percentage of. So the credit cards, personal loans could be 70% of what's owed, 40% of what's owed, depending on how the formula worked out over 5 years.
Usually, folks can do a better plan themselves and get out of debt a lot faster by increasing their income.
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George Camel, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Kyle is in Boston. Hey Kyle, how are you?
Hi Dave, I'm good. How are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
So I just paid off a little under $50,000 in consumer debt.
Good for you. Since March. Way to go.
Consumer debt in an auto loan.
How'd you do that since March?
Using the EveryDollar app.
Do you have a pile of money in your bank or something when you started?
No, I'm in my second year of owning an event rental business and it's been pretty good.
Okay, so you're just making a lot of money and you just dumped it all on debt. Good for you. Way to go.
Yeah. So I have $68,000 in student loans and then $179,000 in mortgage. So I'm kind of looking for your advice on the next steps in paying this off.
I do okay financially.
What's your income?
Teaching is about $65,000 and then the event rental business is a little bit over $100,000..
Wow.
Are you doing the event rental stuff part-time?
It goes from March to November and then the school year. I mean, it overlaps with the school year a little bit, but...
Okay. Amazing. So you're making $165,000 if this keeps up?
Yes. Okay.
So the student loans would be next in your debt snowball. Are those broken down into several different student loans?
Yes, they are. However, I kind of had a question on the order of paying these debts off, because... I mean, I have no kids now, but I could see myself settling down and having kids in the next few years. I'm really trying to hammer away at all of this before I have kids and get married.
When I think about what's more important to me as far as priority and having peace of mind when I have kids, I keep going back to the mortgage before my student loans, which I know is opposite of what you typically teach. And then, being a teacher, I'm also in a master's program right now and will be for the next year and a half or so. So I'm able to defer them for a bit. So I just didn't know your take on that.
I still don't think kicking the can down the road is going to be a blessing to you. Is there a person in your life right now? Are you dating somebody? Or is this just future thinking, one day I want to... Okay.
I wouldn't worry too much about all of that and what the mortgage is going to be one day. I would focus on knocking out all of your consumer debt right now. And the mortgage will get paid when it gets paid and it's also going to appreciate. as long as you have that home. It's going to go up in value.
And the student loans I would not kick down the road. Do you have the money to pay down these debts in the next year? You make $165..
You've paid off $50 since March. You'll be done by what? October?
So you're throwing $10,000 a month.
I made was being dumped into it.
I know, but I mean you just keep doing that. You'll be done by October with your student loan.
Well, it does slow down a bit. My business slows down a bit.
In November?
I'm living.
Yeah, in November. That's what you said. I said you're going to be done by October. You paid $50,000 since March. Pay another $50,000 and be done with this thing.
And you'll free up all the payments from those student loans.
And then pay off your mortgage. next year. Next two years, you pay off your mortgage. Dude, you're killing it. You're a stud.
Do you have money in savings, Kyle?
About $15,000..
Okay. Is that partially for the event rental business or is this just sort of your personal savings?
That's for the event rental business.
Hmm.
Okay. Well, I think you can knock out these student loans, free up the payments, get a fully funded emergency fund, and start investing and then begin paying off the mortgage.
Here's the thing. At the end of the story, three and a half years from now, you have zero debt. either way. If you pay off the mortgage first and then pay off the student loan, you pay off the student loan first, which is the correct thing to do, and then pay off the mortgage. Three and a half years from now, you're done.
I guess I'm just kind of planning for worst case scenario like let's say just everything.
Yeah, but you know what? Why did you pay off the other debts then?
Well, the monthly payments were just so ridiculous.
Somebody convinced you that you needed to get out of debt, and then you called them and asked them, should I really get out of debt?
Yeah.
Do it, man. Knock out the student loan as fast as you possibly can. Don't wait.
until everything Quit screwing.
around with your math theories and knock this stuff out. Knock it in the head. It's worked for you. Don't quit doing what is working. It's working.
Finish. And it's very.
successfully working. It's very fast. And let me tell you this, Kyle. Do not wait until your mortgage is paid off to start a relationship or get married or have kids. I'm from Boston.
Half. my family is like this. They're working on their third master's degree and they're going, well, one day, when I'm settled, I'll, no, one day it's not going to happen. Just, if you want to be in a relationship, start a relationship. If you want to get married, get married.
The debt will solve itself as you begin your life.
You're doing great. Just finish. Just finish the plan. You see, you're doing it. Don't stop.
Knock the student loan out. Do it by October. Sit down. When you get off the phone, sit down and lay it out. Lay it out on your little spreadsheet, because you're a spreadsheet guy, I can tell.
And $56,000, you've already done 50 since March. I can do it in my head. You're done in October, OK? Just do it again. All you did was you were gazelle, intense.
Don't let your foot up off the gas. List, those student loans out, smallest to largest. Work your debt. snowball. Attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, drop a freaking atom bomb on that thing and be done with it.
Quit screwing around with water. No. No, get rid of it. This is what you got to do. Done.
Done.
That was clear.
Nick is in Minneapolis. Hey, Nick. How are you?
Hi, guys. How's it going?
Better than we deserve. What's up?
So in March, I started a landscaping company. Since then, I have netted $250,000 and some change. Wow. And I have not paid myself whatsoever out of it. and I'm just kind of curious how should I go about that, if I should put myself on payroll or if I should do like an owner distribution.
You have $250,000 sitting in a checking account for a lawn mowing business.
So I'm not doing lawn mowing. It's building patios and.
Okay. In your patio business, you have a checking account and has $250,000 sitting in it.
It's got just about $375,000, because that's what I grossed.
Have you got bills to pay out of that?
Not out of that, no. All my equipment I own outright.
All your cost of materials and everything for those jobs has been paid?
Correct.
Okay. Now, okay, and you have a separate account for your business, correct?
Correct.
Good. Good for you. Wow!
That's my LLC. You're freaking.
amazing! Is it just you or do you have a big team?
Listen, just write this down. Send it to Dave's Bahamas Fund.
There we go.
I'm just kidding. P.O. Box. Wow. Oh my gosh.
Very cool, man. I'm so proud of you. All right. Stud, here's what we do. When you move money out of your business that's an LLC and you take the money home, you need to withhold 25% on yourself because it's going to be your taxes.
So, if you take 100 grand out and move it home, move 25 grand into another little savings account over here to the side that you never touch because you need to be filing quarterly estimates on a small business, or you're going to get penalized. Okay. And you're supposed to be filing quarterly estimates on your profits, and if you don't do it in the first year, you don't get penalized, but in year two, three and so on after that you'll get penalized. So, go ahead and get with an accounting person, get with a tax person and get your quarterly estimates set up. They're not hard.
It's a one-page form. It's what I took in minus. my expenses is my profits times my tax rate, and you've withheld on yourself and you got that 25,000 out of that 100 sitting over here in the account and you'll have the money to pay your quarterly estimates. otherwise you're going to get behind with the KGB and you don't want those people calling? I mean the IRS.
you don't want them calling on you. Okay. Okay. So that's then. how much can you take home?
I mean you can take home anything that doesn't leave the business and threatened. If you're paying all of your expenses, whatever's left is profit. you can take it all home and use it on your baby steps, and I would. Way to go Stud.
That's impressive.
Man. That's some patio building right there. Meanwhile over in wherever I'm unemployed.
with a four year degree that I can't use with student loan debt.
This guy makes 375, 250 thousand bucks, whatever it is in building patios.
Love it. He's got to be good at it.
This is the Ramsey Show.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids, and I know they're not real, and I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams. but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's and, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too. Comparison is wired into us, but comparison can also become the thief of joy, because we can feel like we're not enough and begin acting and thinking in ways we would never think otherwise. When it all gets to be too much, think about contacting BetterHelp.
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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Today's question comes from Leslie in Nebraska.
Here's what Leslie has to say. I recently found out that my husband wants a divorce. He says he's felt that way for about a year, but I suspect it's been much longer. I've been a stay-at-home mom for 26 years, and I'm afraid he's going to leave me and our kids, who still live at home with nothing. What do I need to do to put myself in the best possible position when he finally pulls the plug?
How do I protect myself and our children? I haven't been able to trust him in our marriage, and I know I won't be able to in the divorce proceedings either. I'm willing to do the work, but I just need to be pointed in the right direction so I don't waste time and money getting myself together. Ugh, Leslie, I'm so sorry. That is awful, and especially scary for stay-at-home moms, who are very vulnerable in these situations because they haven't had the income for this long.
So, you know, step one is kind of get a lay of the land as much as you can about what's actually going on in the finances.
He's probably been like, honey, I got this, don't worry about it, and left her out of it on purpose.
No, it's very possible. You're not vulnerable at all, Leslie. In Nebraska, you're due half of all the assets and a whole bunch of his income for alimony because you've been in a long-term marriage, and a whole bunch of his income for child support. So, he's the one that's vulnerable. He's just so dummy to know it yet.
So, yeah, what you need to do is go get an attorney today and talk to a divorce attorney today, and they will tell you what the laws in Nebraska will demand that he does. He doesn't have the choice of leaving you with nothing. The law doesn't allow it. So, you need an attorney to tell you how life works and how the law works, because apparently neither one of you, you or him, know that. That will give you some peace, because you'll know, hey, we're going to sell the house and there's $500,000 worth of equity and I'm going to get $250,000 out of that.
Oh, he's got $150,000 in his 401K. I get $75,000 of that. Oh, he's got this. We've got that. I get half of that.
So, you're okay on the short term. Now, long term, it sounds like you need a new career.
And so, what are we going to be when we grow up? What's the next chapter of our life? What's the new version of Leslie Goes to Nebraska? look like?
Yeah, I mean, she's got. all the kids sound like they're grown and gone. She's been a stay-at-home mom for 26 years.
Leave me and our kids who still live, at home.
All of them?
I don't know.
There's a question. I don't know.
I don't know. They should be approaching age to leave, or maybe they're 22 and need to leave. I don't know. But, yeah, you need to go get a job. And you need to start having a career.
and what are you going to do with your life?
What does retirement look like?
You know, if you were 20 when you got married, you're 46.. If you were 25, you're 51.. And so, you've got a lot of life left ahead of you. There's an encore here. There's a chapter two, a second act, whatever we want to call it.
And you're going to have a great life. And you're not going to, you're going to realize, when you're super happy and prosperous four years from today, how miserable it was living with this sap. So, good riddance is what it sounds like. I'm sorry you're going through this. But that's the way the story's going to end.
if you will embrace two things. One is get some legal counsel. And two is start developing you a career path as soon as you possibly can. And so, you know, what's the next thing. for Leslie?
This chapter is coming to a sad ending, but it is ending. And what do we do from here? What's our next thing? Ouch. No fun at all.
No. Doug is in San Jose. Hey, Doug, what's up?
How are you, sir?
Better than I deserve. How are you?
About the same, I guess. Probably better than I deserve. But I'm working on it.
Cool. How can we help?
I'm calling. I own a small construction company. Married. My wife's a nurse. We own two homes in San Jose.
And we're broke.
Why are you broke if you're a nurse and you've got a construction company?
Because I don't know how to manage money.
Oh. Okay.
How much debt do you got? I don't know.
So I have an SBA loan for the company. $130.. I got a HELOC on one of the houses for $150..
One of the houses I owe $700 on and one I owe $600 on.
Okay. What about the one you live in?
The one that I live in, I owe $600 on.
Okay. So you owe $700 plus $150 HELOCs, $850.. What's the other one worth?
The one that I live in?
No. The other one.
The other one is worth about $2 million, between $1 million and $2 million.
Okay. And so if you sold it, you could be debt-free?
Yes.
So why are you hanging onto the investment property?
Because for my kids, I imagine, I mean, that's because I don't have a 401k and I kind of figured that would be my money that I could give to the kids.
Okay. Well, and then you call me and you're broke, so this is not working.
Yeah. So I'm looking for a plan.
So, basically, you borrowed a HELOC and SBA loan and kept a home mortgage in order to buy an investment property. That's, in essence, what has happened, or in order to keep an investment property, to keep from selling it. See, if you had sold it, you wouldn't have the HELOC and you wouldn't have the SBA loan and you wouldn't have the mortgage. And so now you can still sell it and not have all of those things. That's a good start.
That's probably where I'm starting. Is that the only debt you've got?
I believe. Actually, I probably have $20,000 in credit cards.
Okay. And then we need to sit down and start living on a plan, a budget, so that you and your wife sitting together with the EveryDollar app. You go through Financial Peace University. I'll give you both. That's my gift.
If you'll do it. Okay. Go through the class. Sit down. Start writing out a plan.
So what do you build with your construction business? What kind of buildings do you do?
It's actually, we work on, it's a waterproofing company and we work on commercial buildings mostly and apartment buildings, decks and underground parking garages and podiums, and.
So you have to, I presume you have to present a detailed plan and a bid to your customers, don't you? Absolutely. And then you have to execute that detailed plan and bid in order to make a profit and in order to deliver the service as promised. Is that right? Yes.
Yes. All we need to do is apply that exact same skill set to your monthly budget. We're going to lay out a plan for where our money is going to go in detail and we're going to execute the plan. And the two of you, you and your wife, need to agree to that plan before the month begins, just like you and the customer agree to the budget and the schedule of the job. when you get the new job, when you're bidding a job.
And so building a, building a, you know, doing construction work in detail. Now some people do it out of their hip pocket, right? But you're doing it professionally. and if you'll apply that exact same mentality to your monthly budget, tell your money what to do before the month begins and then go, do it. You and your wife, then you don't accidentally end up with credit card debt or accidentally go, oh God, we got to clean up this mess with a HELOC.
Because the HELOC was to cover a mess, wasn't it?
Actually, it was to build, I pulled it to build on the house, but yeah, I, yeah, I should have not borrowed the money. Yeah.
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