No More Excuses: Get Your Debt Cleaned Up!

Gabriel is starting this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Gabriel. How are you? I'm great, sir. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. How can we help? Well, I just found out that my wife has $70,000 in debt from her previous marriage. And I don't know what to do, sir. She wants to file bankruptcy, and I'm freaking out.

Okay. How long have you been married? Three months. Whoa!

Yeah. So you guys didn't talk about money before you got married?

Yes.

You're saying she hid this from you? She did, sir.

Okay.

What is the nature? What kind of debt is it? Okay. So I have all the information here. She was in a busy relationship, and her ex-husband took everything for her.

And they together had a car repo. that equals $50,000.. She had a car loan that she got screwed. that equals $12,000.. Had a what?

A car loan. A car loan is $50,000.. I got that. What was the second thing? It's a car loan that she needed to get a new car for her.

Oh, another car loan. Yeah, another car loan. That's right, sir. And she got $60,000 in collection and $2,000 in credit cards.

All right. I'm sorry. I thought you said it was $70,000.. $70,000.. That's right.

Okay. $50,000 on a car repo? Yes, sir. Okay. And what's the other $20,000??

$12,000 in a car loan. Okay. Do you have the car? Yeah. She does have the car right now.

Okay. She's driving a car around, and you're engaged to her, and you didn't know it had a car loan on it. I do know that she had this $12,000 car loan. Oh, okay. So you did know part of this.

Okay. Yeah. And then the other $8,000 is what? $6,000 in collections. On what?

And $2,000 in credit cards. Collections on what? Medical bills. Okay. Medical.

Good. All right.

Medical bills and a dog. What? Medical bills? and a dog. A dog.

Okay. Yes. That's the $6,000..

Okay. Is there anything? I've got three things. Car loan, car repo, $6,000 in medical bills. Is there anything else?

$2,000 in credit cards. Oh, okay. All right. And what of this did you not know?

Well, pretty much everything besides the $12,000 car loan that she had it. Okay. That she's still having right now. Where's the dog?

The dog died.

Sounds like a country song. Yeah, it's a lot of stuff going on. Gabriel, what do you do for a living and what do you make? I'm a banker and I make $23 an hour. Okay.

All right. And what does she do and what does she make? She's a receptionist and she makes the same as me, $23 an hour. Okay. And you're both working...

I take home pay at $5,000 a month. Yeah. Okay. So you're making about $80,000 between the two of you and you're getting home with about $60,000.. Yes, sir.

So I really don't know what to do. How old are you two? I'm 23 and she's 25.. Okay. How long was she married before?

For eight years. Okay.

Okay. There's two things here. First off, let's just go ahead and tell you, she's not bankrupt. Not even close. Okay.

So bankruptcy is ridiculous. We're not even going to talk about that. There's two things to be addressed here, if I'm in your shoes. In our world, we call this financial infidelity, where a wife or a husband hides and lies about money to their spouse. Okay.

It's a breach of trust. And some people in marriage counseling say that this breach of trust is almost as bad, and even some say worse, I don't know how, but than sexual infidelity.

It's a breach of trust. When you betray or you lie to your spouse about $50,000, it touches the same nerves that infidelity touches. Do you follow me? Because it's a breach of trust. Because then you start to wonder, what else can I not trust?

What else is going on? Right? Yeah, I'm very, I really don't know what to do, sir. I try everything that I can, start in DoorDash and drive Uber, but it's not enough to pay us $50,000.. Let me deal with the tactical in a minute.

The first thing, are you guys in a good church?

Yes, sir, we are. Okay, call the church and set up marriage counseling today.

Because the two of you have to deal with this breach of trust. This is a major issue in your marriage. Okay? When you find out, three months after you got married, that your wife has lied to you about major stuff, that's a problem in your marriage. Okay?

That's a big one. It's a big old problem. I'm more worried about that than I am. the $70,000, dude. You're a banker and you're a nerd, so you're more worried about $70,000..

I'm trying to explain to you, $70,000 ain't nothing. We can take care of that. The lying and the deception has got to end. There's got to be repentance on that. I don't know whether it was shame that kept her from telling you or she knew you were going to freak out.

I don't know what it was and why she didn't tell you, but that's a big deal. Yeah, I understand. She don't want to get in touch with her ex-husband. She was very, very abused by this guy. I don't need to get in touch with him.

Why would we need to get in touch with him?

To, I don't know, deal this car repo. You're all the way back over on fixing it again without dealing with the marriage problem. Dude, I'm telling you, 80% of this problem is her lying about this. 20% is cleaning up the mess. I can clean up the mess here in no time, but I got to get you to understand.

Are you going to call the church and get you some counseling today? Yes, I will, sir. Okay, both of you go. Because you've got to explain to her what this did. Because you can't go here again.

This is deal-ending stuff. It's an integrity breach. Now, here's what we're going to do. Pretty simple. The medical bills are in default.

They're in collections, correct? Yes, sir. Are the credit cards in collections? As well. Good.

And they're cut up. Is the car loan that she's driving current? Let me just ask you something, sir. She got screwed up by these guys. Sir, her car, it's worth $3,000..

Is the car loan current? Yes. Okay. Pay it off or work your way out of it, depending on what you're going to do there. All the rest of these, Gabriel, can be negotiated with for probably $0.10 to $0.15 on the dollar.

So, you've got $64,000 that can probably be settled for $6,000 or $8,000.

. But you're going to start calling them and offering them $0.10 on the dollar to settle. And every one of them will take it. You're just going to have to hardline, negotiate with them and get it in writing before you give them money. You can work your way through this stuff.

Hold on. We're going to put you through Financial Peace University.

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No one wins at something unless they do it on purpose. Winning is an intentional act. No one accidentally wakes up and wins the Super Bowl. What happened? I don't know.

I just got off the bus. No, that doesn't happen. It's a series of intentional acts, sacrifices, disciplines that cause you to win. In the world of money, one of the things that causes people to win is they actually tell their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. That's called a budget.

You give every dollar, an assignment of your income on paper, on purpose, before the month begins. And you agree on it with your spouse. Everyone knows what's going on. And we are in attack mode here. We're going to make this money that we work so stinking hard for behave.

You work too hard to be broke.

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Dylan is in Denver. Hi, Dylan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, how are you guys doing today? Better than we deserve.

What's up? So, I guess my first question is I have been in debt, self-inflicted, several times. Once before, I have become debt-free. And I came into a situation to where I had to move states. And the debt began again.

And I fell back into everything. I'm climbing back out. This time, it's quite a bit deeper than before. I ended up in an auto loan. And I owe $55,000 on a car.

that is worth about $40,000.

. Private party sale.

I also have two credit cards that are maxed out at $10,000 and $12,000.

. And then I have another small personal loan for $3,000..

And I am not quite making enough to make ends meet at my 8 to 9—or, I'm sorry, 8 to 5 job. So, I've been doing side gig, work, everything I can, just to get extra cash flow to try to help pay everything off. How old are you? I'm 31.. What are you making at your day job?

I am at $25 an hour. So, before taxes, and everything. Is credit. bad? Credit's about $600..

Bad. Yeah.

Are you single? Yes, sir.

Who's the car loan with? It's actually with Toyota Financial. Of course it is. Okay. Yep.

My interest rate's at 14.

59%. Tundra? Nope. Actually, it was used with BMW. Oh.

Yeah. 14.5?. Yeah. Oh, you wanted this car bad, didn't you? I did.

I let that little demon inside of me say, your want is more than your need. right now. I let it win. I think this is a pretty big demon, personally. I agree.

I don't think it's a little one. I do agree with that. This guy's a monster. Yeah. Wow.

If I may, I was actually, just this. last Saturday, I was going to a couple dealerships looking to see what a trade-in would be on this, what they would give me, everything like that. The dealership I ended up with, just talking to, I've not done anything. A gentleman I spoke to immediately, I told him exactly what was going on. The first thing he actually did was recommend that I start listening to your guys' show.

So, I'm appreciative of that, and it's already helped me out throughout every dollar. I actually have my budget set, and I have a meeting set next week with a personal one-on-one.

Wow. He recommended that I look into leasing the highest rebate vehicle at any dealership that gives me the highest trade-in value to help eat the negative equity because of the rebate.

He said he's an avid listener of you guys, and so it's one of those things I'm trying to absolutely destroy everything I have dug myself into.

Like I said, I've done it before, and I couldn't stand it. Well, I appreciate his referral, but if he actually listens to the show, he knows I would never tell you to do what he told you to do. I apologize for that. Okay, that's okay. You didn't know.

You walked into it.

It's interesting that he sent you here because he knows I'm going to tell you to never lease a car under any circumstances, and certainly not a new car, especially as a fix for a mess. you're in. Wow. Okay. Feels like a manipulative tactic to kind of go, hey, I listen to Dave all the time.

Now let me tell you what I think you should do. What do you do for a living?

I work on vehicles. I'm an auto tech. Interesting. And so you're making 25, I wrote down you're making 25 an hour. Did I get that right?

That's correct, yes. Yeah, I think you've got to work yourself out of this, Dave. I mean, you've got a skill. You've got a legitimate skill, that is, you can work on a lot of different things, and I think part of this equation is glad you got every dollar going, glad you're starting to meet with the right people here and get your life under control, because you're out of control. But you've got to work yourself out of this, and I think that's going to really help you walk through this.

You need to feel the pain of digging out of this so that you never do it again, but you have a very marketable skill. I'd be working, since you're single, I'd be working 60, 70 hours a week for you. Fixing certs. have you got, certifications? have you got in auto tech?

Over the years that I have been doing it, I'm actually a hybrid transmission specialist. Do you not think you're being underpaid? I feel like you are.

That's another lovely conversation. My path in auto has changed, but in the path I'm in right now, yes, I am extremely underpaid. Why? Why don't you go move? I am actually in the process of finding other shops.

I think you're probably a $40 an hour guy, aren't you? I would like to think so. I never want to assume something like that. It's not a lack of humility, it's just an observation of what you're worth. Absolutely.

I appreciate that. I do like to tell myself I don't make as much, so that way. I always plan for my paychecks to be less than what they are. I want you to work as much overtime as you can, do as much repairs as you can. Your best side hustle is auto repair.

ShadeTree. You've got tools, right? Yes. Anything you can do to gather up ShadeTree, any work you can do, any overtime you can pick up, and a job change. Let's get your income up to attack this.

I'm with Ken on that. Back to the car, I would run over to the credit union and see if you can borrow $15,000.. Or maybe better, $17,000, because you need a $2,000 car when you get rid of this. I agree. If you can borrow the difference and sell it, that's going to be your best bet.

Your only other option, because Toyota Credit is not going to work with you. Yes. What you can do, if you can't get that done, is say, okay, I'm going to make an extra $2,000 a month. In seven or eight months, I'm going to pay the car down to where I can sell it. Okay.

Then I'm going to work my way through the rest of these debts doing the same thing. Okay. That was going to be my next question. I've been listening to you guys every day since. Do not buy another car payment.

Absolutely.

The gentleman at the other place who referred you to us, thank you for that. He was recommending another car payment. You should be sick of car payments and sick of debt. This should be your last go-round, dude. I agree with that.

If you get drunk and you go to rehab three different times, you should eventually quit drinking. That's kind of what's going on. You keep falling off the wagon and going right back in. I was forced to. I fell into.

None of those things are true. You just stood up and pushed your right hand forward if you're right-handed and signed a paper. On purpose, like a grown person, does. Nobody forced. Nobody fell.

There was no accidents here. You just straight up did stupid on purpose.

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Thanks for hanging out, America. Number one best-selling author, Ken Coleman, is my co-host today on the Ken Coleman Show. He talks to people about how your raise is effective when you are. You want to move up through your career, you've got to get better. That's right.

You've got to grow. You've got to add tools to your belt. Sometimes those are coping mechanisms. Sometimes it's the ability to deal with people. Sometimes people are a struggle to deal with.

Yeah. How do you say it? One of the best parts of leading is people. One of the worst parts of leading is people. Absolutely.

Business is easy until people get involved. All these theories and stuff, you could just execute them if you could use robots. But no. We get to do it with humans. Stay tuned, Dave.

The robots may be on their way quicker than we know. Here we go. Here we go, Will Smith. Let's go. Gina's with us.

Gina's in San Antonio. Hi, Gina. How are you? Hi. So glad to be here.

Thank you. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help? So, right now I'm on Baby Step 2, trying to pay off some debt.

I have my full-time job and I have a part-time job doing pizza delivery, as you say. So I'm making pretty decent money with my full-time. I'm making about $64K before taxes. But I graduated with my MBA two years ago and I still haven't felt movement in that career path. Right now.

I'm currently an admin for a retail company and it's not very fulfilling. I've been told to kind of stay in the lane right now for business needs. So I'm not really practicing my creativity and I don't know really where to go next. I've tried applying to so many jobs, over 100, probably every couple of weeks and not really hearing anything back. What's the field you're trying to get into?

So my bachelor's was in marketing, so I really like that. I enjoy consumer behavior, content creation, but I also really like the strategy. So I guess I kind of bounce back and forth, just trying to get, I guess as a hungry person after school, trying to get whatever I can to get into that field. So when you talk about 100 jobs you're applying for, give me a sense of the level, the type of position you're actually presenting yourself for. What is it?

Yeah, so I've tried doing anything from a marketing assistant to social media marketer. Any of those entry-level. I'm not applying for marketing directors or anything. So tell me what the applying process looks like. Real quick, give me a 20-second description of all these applications.

Okay, so normally it's going through Indeed, because I feel like I get the best response there. Even if it's a denial, they're pretty responsive. I tailor my resume towards every position that I'm applying to by going off the description. And I'm not usually getting any interviews. The ones that I do get are kind of like the sales positions, but you have to go door-to-door and kind of promote, let's say, a mental health company to doctors and stuff like that.

But nothing that is really in the strategy or content creation side. Okay, so here's the thing. I don't want to discourage you, but I want to encourage you that what you're doing is essentially playing the lottery. It's the same deal as going and buying your scratch ticket and hope that you hit the lottery. We live in a day and age where it's become easier than ever to apply, and you're evidence of it, but it's not more effective, and you're going to have to go old school.

In the old school play, I wrote a book. I'm going to actually give it to you as a gift here when we're finished. It's called The Proximity Principle, and it basically is this simple formula. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. That's the formula.

In other words, if I keep meeting the right people, i.

e.

, people that are in marketing, people who know, people who run marketing agencies or work in marketing, so now we're going. one degree, could be two degrees, three degrees of separation from everybody. you know, this is how you get opportunities. It is the personal connection where somebody says, let me tell you about Gina. I've known her this long.

She's this sharp. She's got an MBA. She's hungry, high character. She'll win in the workplace because she's good with people. It's that personal testimony that makes you stand out to where you get the interview, and not only get the interview, but you have a very positive impression, which could be a competitive advantage.

So you've got to change your strategy. I know you think you've been putting in the right amount of effort, but I would tell you that all the effort has been wrong because you're playing the lottery. Gina, let me illustrate that for you. At Ramsey, we've got about 1,100 team members in this building with us. We hire about 25, 30, 40 people a month, something like that.

So that adds up to be like 500 a year, 400 a year, 300 a year. Some of them are growth positions. Some of them are replacing people that have left. So we lose about 100 a year. We have about a 10% turnover ratio.

By the way, people in our industry right now have about a 30% turnover ratio. Our turnover ratio is very low.

So just a few hundred folks actually get a job here. You got that?

15,000 applications come in.

That's what you're doing. You're throwing your name in that stack. There's no chance you get hired here. in that. I mean, almost none.

Almost none. It would have to be a very unique, weird thing that happened. What does happen from time to time is somebody that works here knows somebody, and they say, listen, I can vouch for their character, and we don't hire people because of that. But we will talk to them. because of that.

You get out of the stack of 15,000. And that's what the proximity principle is. That's what Ken's talking about. It's not the only way we hire people. And I've never hired one because someone told me to, ever.

But I have talked to people and considered hiring them because someone told me to. Lots of people over the years. And almost every month that happens. And so we do some stuff with Indeed. We do some stuff with internal recruiting.

We do some other stuff. But by far, our most successful stuff is internal referrals. Gina, I want to do a follow-up question. Did I hear you say in your current company, where you're a receptionist, that they told you to stay in your lane? Did I hear you say that?

Yes, you did. Yeah, it was an admin position, so I do reporting and travel and stuff like that. Was that said as a derogatory thing, or was it said, be patient, and maybe there's an opportunity here? That's what I'm trying to discern.

Well, when I was brought on, I was told that it would happen. And then they kind of told me to be patient, I guess, in a way, just for now. But I mean, business changes all the time. Well, how long ago was that? How long ago was that that you came on and they told you to be patient?

About five months ago. Okay, Gina, listen, I struggle with patience, okay? And I'm middle-aged. It's been five months, Gina. So they told you, come in in this role and there might be an opportunity to move into a marketing role.

Is that what I'm understanding? No, no, no, no, no. So there's no moving. This is a completely different department. It's like a support group.

They were just saying I could take on creative projects to kind of practice my skills and to make sure that I keep them. I keep networking with marketing teams within the company and I feel like I'm getting friends there. But I feel like I've also been told that if you leave a company, sometimes you end up getting a more raise and better experience. Okay. All right.

So hold on. Let me address that. So, Gina, let me address that. I'm in that data every day. I'm on Fox Business, all the time.

Fox talking about this stuff. I'm telling you, I just saw a report. What was happening during the Great Resignation is no longer happening. The 15-20% bump for changing jobs, it's no longer reality in our current marketplace. So you are getting old data.

I got to tell you, I want you to do both, and. All I want to encourage you on is to do what I've already told you to do and what Dave's told you to do. But I also want you to keep working in the company, because that is an inside track for you. You're already in the building. Here's one other thing I'd add to that.

Why don't you go, when taking lunch and coffee, as much as you can afford, people in the marketing department, your current company, why don't you say, hey, is there something that I could do that is just helping you? I will volunteer above and beyond my normal workload that I'm responsible for. Nights, weekends, is there a project? Can I jump in? I'll roll my sleeves up and I'll help you take some load off of your back.

Okay? Just because I want to help, because I love this work. And let me tell you something, that's very attractive. So I'd start to offer that. Keep connecting within your current company.

Don't take your foot off that pedal. And also, don't miss the opportunity that sometimes we're five months in, Gina. Five months. Hang in there while you're hustling on the outside. You're doing all the right stuff.

We're going to send you a copy of this book. And I did not hear this from you. But in case you folks are out there, and you might be saying this, sometimes when you have a newly acquired degree, you think that is the magic bullet. Your degree is absolutely worthless. The knowledge that you got getting the degree is what gives you value.

But the degree is not a silver bullet. It's not going to open doors and make this easy.

You are the secret sauce. Go get it.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality, career, job, personal growth expert, is my co-host, number one best-selling author of several books. He's here to help you guys, including The Last Young Lady. She's a sharp young lady. That was very cool. Good call.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

. We could use your help, and a bunch of you have been helping us. Thank you for that. Apparently, in the world of the internet, things like YouTube or Spotify or Apple,

podcasting world and broadcast world, if you subscribe or you follow, it messes with their mathematics over there, their algorithm, and it causes them to tell people about us. And you're doing that, because lots and lots and lots of new people are here, like a bunch. Thank you. Thank you for that. Thanks for spreading the word, in other words.

And share the show. Click the share button. If you hear something funny or sad or inspiring, click it and send it to somebody. Informative, click it and send it to somebody. Cut the link out.

If you're listening on talk radio, thank you. Tell people where you're listening. So share the show and leave a nice five-star review. That helps a bunch, too. All this affects the mathematics, guys, and it helps us.

And, by the way, you're our only marketing plan, so word of mouth. If we suck, you guys aren't going to tell anybody, or you'll tell people we suck, and we'll be out of business. If we do good and we help you, and you tell people, then we get more folk to help, and that's why we're here. So life is good. Katie's in Phoenix.

Hi, Katie, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So my husband and I are currently on Baby Step 2,.

and we're about to set up our. well. We haven't done anything like that before, so we're doing that. My question is, we do have a two-year-old son and another little one on the way. Do we need to set up a trust for them,

and then put that on our life insurance and in the well, or is a customary trust? that's in the well enough? What I did when our kids were that age, and what I recommend, is a family trust is formed at your death. Okay. And you give that trust a name in the well.

The instructions of the well are, if both of you die,

in other words, if you die, your husband's going to take care of things. If he dies, you're going to take care of things. So there's that part. But then, if you both die, that's what we're worried about, and we're going to name it the Katie Trust, or whatever we call it. Okay?

And your family name, whatever it is. Children's Trust. And you call it whatever you want. It doesn't matter. And then you name the beneficiary, the secondary beneficiary, not the primary, on the life insurance policy, to be the trust.

The primary beneficiary would be your husband, for your life insurance would be you, for his life insurance. The secondary, meaning, if both of you died, it would go to this trust. And the trust is only formed upon your death.

Okay? Now, once you've done that, so let's say that between the two of you, you had a million bucks, and you left a million bucks in the trust, and you got a couple of babies. Well, then you say, okay, who's the guardian of the children? You need to put that in the will. And that can be the same person that manages the trust, or it can be a separate person.

It's ideal for it to be two people. One manages the kids, one manages the money for the good of the kids.

I'll tell you some of the stuff we put in ours at the time. Our kids are grown, so all that went away.

We only used it while they were minors. Okay? So now it's just left to them. Okay? Today.

Because they're grown people. And it's much more complicated because we've got a bunch of crap. But anyway,

inside of a children's trust like that, you can name, we had stuff like, I want the million dollars put into four mutual funds. I want you to contact this person, our SmartVestor Pro, to help you pick the four mutual funds. I want the four mutual funds to have 10-year track records, one growth, one growth in income, one aggressive growth, and one international, or two of each category. And then the income off of that is to be used at X number of dollars to be sent to the person.

for monthly support. Okay? So we're going to send them $5,000 a month off of this account, or whatever it is, for monthly support. And then, when they turn 16, some of the money can be used to pay half of their car. They need to save the other half and work for it.

Then, if they have a major medical event, some of the money can be used to cover a major medical event of a child. When they go to college,

we send it to them. Okay. Whatever wasn't used up to care for them as they grew, went to college, got a car, had a medical, whatever. Okay? And that's how ours was set up.

Again, all of that evaporated and is gone because we outlived the need for that.

Yes. But that's how we structured every bit of that. You can do that with an attorney. You can do it with Mama Bear legal forms, either one. But it gives you a lot of peace to know.

And you talk through, okay, it makes you stop and think, who do you want raising your kids? Oh, it's a big deal. That's why you need a will. And I would add, Katie, once the kids are old enough to understand the concept of all this, I think it's really wise to sit down and explain it to them. What a wild lesson for them to really get the responsibility.

not to harass, but to explain what you've done for them. I believe they'll pass it on and really appreciate it. And so we obviously sat down with the people that were identified to take care of the children, the guardians, and said, okay, there's going to be this number of millions of dollars over here, and here's the terms on it. It's going to send you money to take care of them, so they're not a financial burden for you to take on.

If they have a problem, they'll be able to cover the medical, and you don't have to worry about a car. So it's going to cost you guys nothing. You probably actually might pocket a little bit out of this. It might be, but you're not going to make you rich to raise these kids, but it's not going to cost you anything to raise these kids. And so then they know that's going on, and then the trustee knows what your intentions are, and you've talked that through.

with the guardians. Yeah. We did the same, and there's a great peace. It's sobering, too. It is.

It's heavy. No question. Yeah. Wow. Leslie's with us in Yuma, Arizona.

Hi, Leslie. How are you? Hello, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? I have a question about owner financing and balloon payment. My elder parents are asking me for advice.

They bought a house that they own in another state for months, and finally they received an offer for owner financing. The house was originally listed for $179,000, and the offer is a purchase price of $200,000 with $15,000 down, financing five-year balloon payment of $513 a month. Away.

Okay.

They're overpaying for the house. They're not putting enough down to where they lose anything, and when they hand the keys back to your elderly parents, they will have stripped the house out.

Okay. No. Run. Run. And you know what?

The realtor, she said, oh, this looks like a good idea. Yeah. Looks like a good idea to fire your realtor. Yeah. I think I'm getting a different realtor.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because they'd be better off to rent it, because then they still own it, and they don't have to foreclose to take it back later when this goober runs off to wherever. No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to pay you $200,000 for $179,000..

That's $30,000 more than it's worth, or $21,000 more than it's worth, but I'm going to put down $15,000, which means we're still not even into the value. Okay. If you're that desperate to buy a house, there's something wrong with you.

Hello? Yeah. Run. Run. I have a friend that says, when in doubt, don't.

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do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality, number one, best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225..

Ava's in Colorado Springs. Hi, Ava, how are you? I'm okay, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve.

Well, thanks for taking my call. I'm a little nervous and it's kind of a lot, so I'm gonna try to summarize it, because I know time is of the essence on phone calls like these. My husband, of over 30 years, has left me. It's the third time in five years he's left. And.

he's told me that if I do not give him, help him get a heel lock on the house for over $100,000, he'll file a divorce,

and I'm just really scared and I'm not exactly sure what to do. I don't want to do that and I won't do that. I won't use our house, you know, in that way.

I'm just, I have a little bit of savings, but I don't have enough to maintain the bills and pay a lawyer.

Are you living in the house? A lot more than I am. He left.

He left and I'm sorry. I'm trying to figure out how to maintain everything. He just started a new job, and so Why does he want a heel lock?

He says it's because he wants to buy some land and a race car, a sports car.

Okay. I'm so, sorry. Yeah.

I'm just not really sure how to proceed, because I can't. I don't have enough money right now to hire an attorney and pay the bills, because he is no longer getting a paycheck, because he just started a new job. He used to get, you know, auto pay, and then this all just happened. When does his pay start at the new place now? He hasn't given me any details.

I've asked specific questions via email, and he has not given me specifics. Okay. And you don't work outside the home? I do, actually. I make quite a bit less than he does.

What do you make?

Anywhere between last year. I'm a realtor. Last year, my business took a loss. This year, I'm probably tracking to make around $40,000 right now and hoping and working towards more. Okay.

All right. Do you have family in the area?

I do. Okay. Good family or toxic?

I have really, really good family. I just don't want to, you know, I just want to, I don't want to put this on other people. It doesn't feel... Do you have children or grown? They're grown.

Where are they?

Here, and then one is out of state as well. Are you in a good church?

I used to be. I am not currently, but I am in the Word. I read my Bible every night. I read my devotional every day and pray. It wasn't, I wasn't trying to judge you.

I was just trying to figure out who's around you that can love you. well. That's all I'm trying to figure out. Yeah. I understand.

I understand. You've got kids, you've got family, and you could plug back into a church or, if not, that church to have people around you to walk with you through this, because you feel very alone. I can hear it. Yeah. It's unsure how to proceed.

If I hire an attorney, I won't have enough money to pay the mortgage. If I don't hire an attorney, I feel like I'm going to end up, you know, in a really bad place. You need to call today and get an appointment with an attorney because part of his paycheck, when he gets it, is going to go to you immediately.

during a legal separation in Colorado. Okay. So this idea that you're somehow, that he gets to keep all of his money and go play wherever he wants to play when he's been married for 30 years is not true. It doesn't work that way in any state. So I'm not an attorney, but you've got a lot more things you can do to get the short-term cash issues which are scaring you.

So when he starts getting a check, some of it's going to be yours immediately if you get a good attorney. I want to follow up, Ava. Is this a pattern of a threat associated with the other times that he's done this? He's done this before. Is it always kind of after he threatens you or in conjunction with some type of a threat, a manipulation?

I think a manipulation is a good way to put it. I think he... Yeah, I think he's... I think this is emotional extortion and I think he's full of crap. And I'm with Dave.

I'm going to.

. I'm not in any way... I agree with all of Dave's advice. I'm going to say something kind of like I'm going to act like your brother, like you're my sister. And this guy, this guy, I think, is a punk.

I think he's a coward. No real man does this. This is straight up manipulation, emotional extortion. I'd call his bluff, because I see a pattern here. You said three to five times he's done this, I thought.

Is that right? Dave, you've done this longer than me, Dave. Am I off on this? I feel like there's something where she could call his bluff while she does what you're asking. The bottom line is, there's nothing he can do except give you some of his money immediately.

Yeah, I don't think he has anything over you. So, you know, other than you wanted to stay... if you want to stay married to the guy, which, if you do, there's going to be extensive counseling needed. Yeah. Because I don't...

I would not send you back into this situation again. And you're certainly not going to cave, and you already told me you weren't going to cave to this ridiculous demand. No, I can't. I would never do that. It is ridiculous.

So what is the home worth?

I would say it's worth between 1.

3 and 1.

4 million. What do you owe on it? Under six. Okay. All right, cool.

So, you know, you're going to get a lot of money when it sells, and you're going to start a new life with a broken heart because things didn't turn out like you thought they were going to.

And there's some grief that goes with that. that's very real. And you're probably going to get a substantial portion of his income coming to you. It's called alimony.

Okay? And guess what? He didn't get a race car. That's exactly right. Which I just hate.

I hate that a lot. That was sarcasm.

I would remind Tim Ava what Dave's telling you. Like, okay, I'll play. Get your alimony payment figured out. Get everything figured out on this. Yeah, you know.

Here's what we're going to do. We're going to sell the house and you're going to get a portion of that. I'm going to get a big portion of your 401k from the last job. And I'm going to get a big portion of your check going forward called alimony. And so you're going to wish that you hadn't thought of this idea.

when you're done. Yeah. And the problem is, he's not a keeper. I wish he was. Unless.

you have dramatic repentance on his part and some real strong counseling, this is not a keeper. It's not going to work out. And I'm so sorry. Yeah. Heartbreaking after 30 years.

Wow. Well, actually, probably he started five years ago. It's probably 20 years. The last 10 have not been good years. But the, I'm so sorry.

And then you're going to go make millions of dollars in the real estate business and have a wonderful life, and he's going to realize how bad he screwed up. Gosh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, go, get an attorney today. The attorney will talk to you without putting down $10,000. And when you tell them where he works and they can get in touch and they can start getting some of his money, they'll help you gather up the money to get there.

You got a lot of equity to get there, a retainer.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Alice is with us in Houston. Hi, Alice. How are you? Hi, sir.

Good, thank you. Good, what's up? Okay, so I'm on Baby Step 2 and I have a very expensive car. It was $67,000.. It's a 2024..

It's electric, so I don't have to waste any money on gas. That's the one good thing about it. But I still owe $41,000 on it right now. I owe $151,000 on my house, and those are my only two debts. I take home $70,000 from work, $20,000..

My boyfriend lives at my house and pays half the bills and then $10,000.

. My kid gets Social Security disability from his father and so he got a back payment of $25,000 and it's been almost a year now and I've had that put up. He also had like savings since he was little. He has $5,000.. This is my kid.

So $5,000 from me, saving, $25,000 from his dad's Social Security, and then I have another kid. She only has one in like $2,000.. So do I use their money to pay off my car or do I just leave their money alone, because that's technically borrowing money?

and just make my money and pay my stuff. I can pay off my car really fast. You said the car's worth $67,000 and you owe $41,000?. I bought it for $67,000.. When I look at KBB, it's between $45,000 and $48,000..

And you owe $41,000 on it and you make $7,000.

. Yes, sir. I take home $70,000.. Yes, sir. I'll get all the way fast.

I do not at all like the way that feels taking your kid's money to clean up your mess. It's ridiculous. It's awful. No, no. Because you bought a car that you can't afford.

I wanted to make sure. You bought a car you can't afford. Okay. I got it. Yeah.

Sorry. Yeah. We teach... Listen, here's the thing, Alice. Things with motors and wheels go down in value rapidly.

And so one of the guidelines we use for wealth building is don't have more tied up in things with motors and wheels all added together. If you've got boats and motorcycles and side-by-sides, whatever it is, add them all together. They should not be more than half your annual income. And if they are, you have too much going backward to prosper. Because you're losing your butt on everything with motors and wheels, including what you're driving.

And so you've got more than half your annual income tied up in this car. It's worth 48.. You only make 70.. Well, actually, it's your take-home. So you probably make 90..

So you're right around half. So if you want to keep the car, you're probably right on the bubble. But you really bought a car you shouldn't have bought. That's the bottom line. And so either sell it and move down or pay it off very quickly.

But no, I would not use your children's money. Just because.

if you were calling me up and you said

I'm raising these children and this Social Security money covers the cost of raising the child and we're doing some other things. I have many times told people to use that money. It's not their money. technically. It comes in their name.

But what you get from Social Security, even if it's back pay total, is not what it costs to raise a child. So you spend more on the child than they're getting. So if you use that money in your monthly budget, I usually tell people that's okay. But I'm not going to do that if I'm in your shoes to pay for something I shouldn't have bought in the first place. That's more for survival and for month-to-month bills that I'm talking about.

And this is far from survival. This is a luxury item that you couldn't afford, and now we're trying to clean it up with their check. No, I would never do that. Ever. Alex is with us in New York.

Hi Alex, how are you? Hi. Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I've been to watch a lot of your shows this last year.

So when we decided to buy a house, we decided to do the Ramsey way and throw all of our money at it. But as the closing approaches at the end of the month, I'm getting nervous that we will basically have no money left and have all the eggs in the same basket. I'm wondering whether we should take a mortgage or should we just use all our cash? How much is the purchase price on the house? It's $990..

And how much money do you have? I think about $1.1 right now. So you have like $100,000 left over and you own a million dollar house. Yeah, but like you said, a good growth fund would increase at 7-10% per year and houses doesn't seem to appreciate at the same rate. So, like people have been telling me, especially recently, to not put all the money in the house.

I don't know if that's why. There's a lot of broke people with opinions about other people's money. So what people have been telling you I couldn't give a crap less about.

So you had decided, up until people got involved, to pay cash, right? Yeah. What was it that was motivating you to pay cash?

Well, I mean we actually never took how much debt for anything. Why? What was your motivation? Why pay cash? Uh, I allow to save interest.

Okay. Right, so we don't have to pay interest. Mm-hmm. And payments. And payments.

What's your household income?

That's 350.

. Mm-hmm. Without a house payment and no other payments in the world, you should be able to build cash very, very quickly, shouldn't you?

I hope so. Well, no. No, I mean really. Mathematically. It's not a hope.

It's a math formula. 350 minus no payments equals a lot of money.

Right? There's still property tax and like that. Where did the 1.1 come from? Savings. Oh, so you already know how to do this.

and yet you're arguing with me. No, no, no. No, I'm telling you. You know how to save money. You saved up 1.1 on 350 and now you're going to have no payments on your housing, which you don't have now.

You're paying something on housing now. And so I'm saying it's really easy to stack cash and you're going, I don't know. Well, yes, you do. You saved up 1.1.. You already know how to do this.

And it's going to be even easier without a house payment. Alex, I'm going to tell you what I think's happened here. I think your values led you the right direction. Your values have driven you to an unbelievable position of having 1.1 cash for a home and you ran into somebody who has some influence in your life and they're starting to mess with your head. But your values and your gut were right on the whole time and now influences are messing with you.

Isn't that what's happening?

Maybe, I think so. Yeah, I'm here to tell you that's exactly what's happening. Also, it's a very huge purchase. that makes me... Yeah, but remember, you just told Dave the reason you didn't want to have a mortgage is because of the payments.

If you put a mortgage on it, it's still a huge purchase. That's true. As a matter of fact, it's two huge purchases. A mortgage and a house.

Yeah. Listen, either don't buy the house and walk away from the deal or pay cash. If I were in your shoes, sir, that's what I would do. And you are going to have millions and millions of dollars as a result of that advice, if you listen to me. Because without a house payment, with a house payment or with rent, you've already saved up with your income, 1.1..

You're already in a stellar saver. And so you're going to rebuild this. so... You have another million dollars in cash lying around. so fast.

So fast. I mean, just please do it. Please do it.

It's interesting. I guess, when you walk out the first time and you have to step on something that you've never stepped on before, you have to step into something you've never been before.

It's naturally.

. It's the first time he bought a million dollar property. That's a lot. Yeah. And his friends played into...

They weren't trying to manipulate, but they played into that fear by giving him an option. And now you can kind of rationalize the fear. No, they didn't give him an option. They shamed him. Might have been, yeah.

What kind of idiot are you? You're getting a mortgage, man. Nobody does that. Nobody pays cash. What are you listening to?

Some hillbilly in Tennessee? Come on, man. And that allows him to rationalize the fear. Then you go, I don't know. Now I'm suddenly unsure.

I'm the guy with 1.

1 million in cash and I'm unsure. Come on, Alex. You got this, man. You got it. You can do it.

This is the Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Today's question comes from Gary in Louisiana. I'm in my mid-40s and I'm a senior executive at a publicly traded company. My wife is also successful in her field. We have no debt except for our mortgage, which I can pay off from expected bonuses and maturing vested accounts.

I'm starting to burn out and have side interests that could become full-time work for me. Is there a rule of thumb for how much cash cushion you should build before you jump off and start your own business? For instance, should I have a certain number of years of living expenses and savings? I feel a bit silly asking this question because I feel like the answer is go, go, go, but I'm also in my peak earning years and don't want to be foolish about the amazing resources I've been given at my current job. Well, a rule of thumb for me on how much money, I like to give people advice to have, if you're going to jump into your side business, I'd want to have 12 months of living expenses in the bank.

And that's because I just don't want people to have the pressure to survive when going into working for themselves. It's hard enough to be a solopreneur or to run a business without the pressure of trying to eat. In this case, in your situation, because of your financial situation, I'd also say I'd want the side hustle to be making 70, a rule of thumb for me would be a minimum of the side hustle earning 75% of your current income. That would be minimum for me, not ideal, minimum. So minimum 75% of income and then 12 months of your living expenses in the bank, so that essentially you've got that pipeline of business built up in that you're making a good chunk of your current salary and we have a very strong account of retained earnings is what we call that here at Ramsey Solutions, in that business account.

That would be for me a bare minimum. Other than that, I think it's too risky and again, I just don't want the pressure of this side business feeding me. I want to know that it's mature and it's proven. When I get desperate shortly after that, I usually get stupid.

You change your words. People say stupid things about starting their own business, like take the leap. Jump into it. What Ken is describing is you pull the boat up next to the dock and you step into it, and then you actually won't need any of your money you have set aside, because you're going to be earning almost as much and soon after that will be earning more than you used to earn, because you've got the business growing on a trajectory and it's almost there already. but you can take the step not the leap or the jump by pulling the boat close to the dock.

but too often what we see is the boat is it's a hundred yards out and you come running down the dock and leap like you can make it or something, and all you get is wet. You're just jumping in. That's all you're doing. It's dumb. That's not what you're describing, Gary.

You're describing wisdom and thinking through this and all that. but in other words, I wouldn't start, I wouldn't say, if you had five years saved up and zero income production on the side hustle and you quit a perfectly great day career hoping See, that's a leap of faith. That's unwise and that's kind. It's actually foolish. That's what it is.

So you don't do that because you could burn through any amount of money if you have no replacement income. so the more replacement income you have, the less pad you need. Let's pretend, Let's be crazy for a second. Let's pretend that his side hustle took off all of a sudden before he realized it. Yeah.

And he was making 150% of what he makes now. How much savings would he need? None. That's exactly right. You're getting a raise.

Right? You wouldn't have to have a year setback. You wouldn't have to have anything setback. but if you're going to go with that 75% guideline that Ken's talking about, then I completely agree with the one year and six months. so that's your emergency fund.

six months is set to the other, set to the side just to cover cash shortages, where you're going to burn if you have any cash shortages. And of course, the other thing you've done wisely is you're out of debt and you guys are. your wife has a good career, which also will help you make this step. Yeah, I agree. What we're preaching here is moderation, patience, hold If you're running a business already.

guys, we've got profit centers all through Ramsey. We have different things. we do here. Publishing, live events, broadcast, all these different things. here.

They're all different profit centers. We don't leap here. That's right. I'm already running a business and I don't. let's just go see if we can lose 10 million dollars.

Heck, no, man. No. What we do is we do. we try stuff. We want to prove the concept.

I call it proof texting. I want to test market. I want to prove the concept before I bet the farm on it. That's all you're doing with your business. You're proving the concept by actually making money doing it.

It's no longer a freaking theory. It's not a dream. You're a dream killer, Dave. No, I'm a nightmare killer. I'm all about you living your dreams, but I'm not going to help you with your nightmares.

And people jumping when they have zero income on the side hustle. That's a nightmare. It's unwise. And it's not that Dave doesn't. Yeah, I'm completely entrepreneurial.

I'm the biggest capitalist pig you will ever meet. I love capitalism. I love taking a reasonable risk for an awesome return. I do it every day and I want that for you guys. Lisa's with us in Toronto.

Hi, Lisa. How are you? Oh my gosh. Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken.

I'm super excited to be talking to you. I love your show. I listen to it every day. So I have a question, obviously. So I am 53 years old and I just downsized into a home that is leaving me mortgage-free.

So I'm really excited about that. I have no debt except for like $2,500 because of my move. And I have a boyfriend and we are talking about him moving into my home. And a couple of options that we're thinking about. One is that he pays for half of the house and then he's on the deed or the title, whatever.

But he's super.

. So we're both divorced. I have my kids every other week. He's super gun-shy because we've both been burnt. How long have you been dating?

Five years.

When do you get not gun-shy?

It's been a thing. I'll be honest.

I mean, I get it if it's five months. But dude, painter, get off the ladder. Yeah. I agree. Okay.

No. You do not deed your paid-for house to Mr. Gun-shy. Yeah. Not a chance.

Okay. So this was the other... Because he was talking about. he pays for half... I don't care.

You do not want to own a house with people you're not married to. Okay. That's what I kind of figured. Freaking nightmare. So what I was thinking...

Get married. Well, there's that. There's that. Solves the whole issue.

So another option would be.

. And I don't know if I like this one any better, but moving in, selling his house, of course. And then we split the bills. And then, if there's any house improvements, then we each pay for half and take it out of a separate bank account so we can keep track of it. And then, if things go terribly wrong, then, okay, here's your half of what you put into the house.

You don't have to worry about how much the house has increased in value. I'm exhausted hearing that. Did you hear what you just said? I did. I did.

This is an awful lot of work. to say that we still aren't ready to get married.

Yeah. So here's what I think. You called to ask. I'm sorry, but I'm duty-bound to love you. well.

I love you, but I'm married. I think you guys, what this is bringing up is you need what the old teenagers used to call in the 80s a define the relationship moment. Yes, that's what I was thinking. I think we need to decide what we is. Y'all are trying to be something halfway, and it's not working for you.

It's way too much work. I think you either need to get on or get off. Let's decide. Are we going to get married? If we are, then we can talk about combining assets and incomes, and that's what married couples should do.

People who are shacking up should not do any of that. Ever. He should not move in if he's not going to get married. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Well, don't miss your chance, and the window is closing. The rooms are running out to join us on the Live Like No One Else cruise. We're going to be on a very high-end, very nice Holland America, fairly new, almost new ship. A hundred percent of the ship will be Ramsey people.

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She'll be with us. It's going to be a great cruise. It's the Live Like No One Else cruise, because after you've gotten out of debt and you're on Baby Step 4, 5, 6, or 7, that's when you start doing things like vacations, and you live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else. We want you to come. We want you to be part of it.

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I highly suggest you do that quickly. Book yours at RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. We'd love to have you. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. Lindsay is with us.

Lindsay's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Lindsay. How are you? Hi. Wonderful.

Thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Thank you for taking the time to help me.

I am a recently widowed 50-year-old, and I am trying to figure out if I should go back to school to increase my income and have financial stability. How long ago did he pass? February. Oh, my goodness. How long were you all married?

30 years. Oh, I'm so sorry, honey. Thank you. What happened?

He went into.

Sorry, I'm.

. It's okay.

He went into respiratory arrest, so it was very unexpected and sudden.

I'm so sorry. So you were at home full-time before that? No, actually, I have always worked. We have three kids, and always kind of balanced the kids and work, but I am self-employed.

What do you do now? I'm a physical rehab therapist. Okay, and how old are the kids?

22,, 20, and 16.

So you've got a teenager at home. I do. What's your financial situation? Any kind of life insurance, debt? What's that look like?

I have $200,000 sitting in a 5% interest account at a credit union. I have $90,000 in a 401, and I have $30,000 sitting in a savings at a credit union.

And no debt.

House was paid for? It's not paid for.

I owe $225,000 on it right now at $3.

37.

What do you currently make? What do you currently pay yourself out of your business?

About $50,000 a year is what my business makes, and basically I take that. It's a very, very small business.

We always relied on his. Sure. What was his income?

$90,000 a year. Have you run some numbers on your budget to kind of drive this question on, should I go back to school to increase my income? In other words, what do you believe you need to increase your income by? So you go from $50,000 to what? Do you need that for margin?

I mean, give us the real, real on this. So the real, real is I've been doing what I do for 25 years, and we knew that my hands could only take it for so long, and we knew that was kind of winding down. My goal was to take my experience and my passion for what I do and turn it into being a hospice nurse, so still working with people and helping them. And I was going to obviously be able to take my time to do that. So this is more of now.

I need to stop doing what I do because I have no security in what I do. There is no guarantee in my job, physically or financially.

What kind of timeframe do you think you have on your hands, the physical ability to do this? I mean, I was planning on kind of starting a transition this year. Okay, so I've got a thought here, but one other question. Have you looked into what it would cost? And I don't mean name-brand school.

I mean, what's the cheapest that you can get qualified to be a hospice nurse? Yes, so it would be a community college, and the program to do that would be, I believe it was $16,000.. But I have to take all the prerequisites to get into the program. So it's going to be a couple of years before I even do that. Okay, so, two years and $16,000 total?

And you can keep working during that time. And I almost wonder, and I hear your fear muscle kind of flaring up here, and I get it. I just wonder if you shouldn't look into being a therapist for someone else, so that you don't have this added pressure of going out of the cave, killing it, and dragging it back. I just wonder if that's not a viable option, to where you at least take that stress off. You're fine financially.

Even if you were to continue making $50, you're okay, correct? Correct. I just wonder if that, transition-wise, you know, takes the mental stress off. How long have you been making $50??

Years. Right? Yeah, years. Okay, this is more secure than it feels like right now. That's true.

That's a good point. Because your world has crumbled.

I know I physically can't continue to do it, though. Yeah, but I'm not asking you to. You can do it for two years, can't you?

Hopefully, yes. While you go, get your school done.

So the net cost, you're going to live on $50k, and you're going to work, and you're going to go to school, and you're going to get your nursing degree.

What's a hospice nurse make?

It's probably going to top out at about $60,000 a year. You're going to get a full nursing degree, correct? Correct. Okay, so you can do any kind of nursing. Hospice is one thing that you're interested in, but certainly you're not obligated to only do that.

And, as you know, nurses can do as much as they want to work. You can get all the work you want. And you can make $100k if you want to.

It's up to you, though.

If your hands can make it two years, which they were going to have to anyway, or you're going to have to just live on your husband's income before, right? Right. Correct. If you were going to just quit and do this. Or if you make it one year, and then you use some of the $200k to live on in year two, while you spend $16k and finish up the degree.

But yeah, I'm with you. I think it's a smart move. I would go, do it. Absolutely. Okay, and then do I leave the money that I do have just sitting where they're at right now?

Yes. Okay. To make this transition. As soon as your new income is stabilized, write a check and pay your house off. But that's the new career, and that's two years from now.

Well, probably closer to four.

I'm sorry, I thought we were saying two. Well, the RN program is two years long, but I have to take all the prerequisites to get into that program. Oh, okay. And then, by the time I get through the program and graduate, it'll be about four years from right now. Okay.

Go back and re-verify that it's going to take you that long to do the prereqs. Maybe you can knock them in a year. I would roll up my sleeves, no pun intended, and get those done in a year, if I can. I like your plan. overall, though.

I'm sorry for what you've been through, and you're thinking very clearly for someone that's in this situation. So, very good job, and we're here to help you. If you need anything, you call us, okay? This is the Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he helps folks with their personal growth so their career is maximized. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Vince is with us in Phoenix.

Hi, Vince, how are you? Hey, how's it going, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'd just like to start off with giving glory to God.

Literally, five minutes before I called, I wrote down on a piece of paper, and I said, I have a net worth of negative $110,000, and right below that I put, I will become a babysitter for mail-in cash. Cool. My question is, I know you won't tell us to file bankruptcy, but my question, I guess, would be, am I bankrupt?

I have about $32,000 in credit card debt. I owe about $60,000 on my truck. I had a travel trailer that I was living in that got repossessed, and at the time I owed $36,000 on that, so I kind of put in there that I'll be upside down $10,000 to $15,000, maybe more. I owe about $13,000 in taxes.

And let's see, I think that's it. What do you make? Yeah, that's about it.

This year I should make about $50,000 to $60,000.

. What do you do? I started a business back in 2021.. I built shade structures. First year I netted about $75,000..

Second year was 2022, about $85,000.

. 2023, $60,000.. And then 2024, I'm at $30,000. so far. You build what?

I build shade structures like Ramadas, pergolas. I do carpentry work as well. Okay. Why the drop in income?

I guess just the market. I mean, it's just slowed down. I do great work. I get good reviews. I don't advertise much.

I've always struggled with that. I know it just worked off of Facebook, essentially. So. did your word-of-mouth leads just slowly trickle down? Yes.

Yeah, that has a lot to do. That's consistent with what we saw, with people, consumer spending on home improvement projects and stuff like that, coming out of the pandemic. So that's not inconsistent. But as a carpenter, you should have more work than you can actually get as a carpenter.

Yeah. And I would say it's just the effort that I put in, as far as advertising or any of that. My focus has really gone down, I guess you could say.

In Phoenix, Arizona, you can make 90 to 100 as a carpenter going to work for somebody.

Yeah. Yeah. I was working at a fabrication shop. I understand. I understand.

I wanted to work for myself. I want you to work for yourself, too, but I don't want you to be bankrupt. So we can't have these two things competing with each other.

You're not getting enough income in, and we need to get some income coming in. I don't care where it comes from. It'd suit me fine if you got 42 decks to build in the next two weeks and took off and you made 100K working for yourself. That's fine. I don't care where you get it, but you're going to have to get it.

Yes. Your problem is an income problem.

Yes. And I'm starting, like I said, I have all the tools. I'm starting to detail. There's a super low cost and startup, a mobile detailing, something I'm passionate about as well. So I'm getting ready to start that here in the next couple of weeks.

Like I said, I'm just gathering the stuff that I need to buy. I've looked up and done a lot of research and that kind of stuff, and there's a few people that I know in the market. Vince, you're broke, and we're telling you, you've got to get after it with one of the most sought-after trades in America. right now. You can go look this up.

It's all over the internet. There's a shortage of carpenters, and you're in one of the hottest markets in America. Don't buy a pressure washer. Go, get your carpentry work done. Yeah.

Do the pressure washing down the line. But right now you need money. Go, you know. Yeah. Go, call every customer you've had and ask them for a referral.

Okay. By the weekend. And expand and quit trying to be such a freaking artist with the copalism. Let's go build some stuff. I don't care what it is.

Swing a hammer, drive a nail. Yeah. That somebody pays you to do and make some money. If you were making 100K, you wouldn't have called me.

Exactly. This is an income problem. It's not a debt problem, so it's not a bankruptcy problem. And if you can't afford the truck, sell the truck. By the way, if you file bankruptcy, you lose the truck.

And the truck is ridiculous. in this situation. You owe way too much on this truck. So you probably do need to sell the truck. You probably need to sell it anyway and just move down and truck.

You had it to pull the travel trailer. that got repoed, right? Yeah. And for the, I was using it for my flatbed trailer. that I do for business.

But a lesser truck will pull a flatbed. Yeah. Okay. You own the flatbed too? Yes, I own the flatbed.

What's it worth?

Probably about 3000 bucks. Okay. Then we can keep it. Is it a five? Is it a gooseneck or a regular trailer?

No, no. It's just a bumper. pull up in 18 foot. Okay, good. That's keepable and almost any pickup will pull that.

Agreed? Agreed. Yeah. So it doesn't require a $60,000 truck to pull that thing. So it maybe did to pull the travel trailer, but that's a different thing.

That's all gone now. So, okay. The repo can be settled when and if they call you for pennies on the dollar, but I need you to have about five or 10 grand ready for when they call you, so you can offer them a settlement in full and they'll take it. If they ever call you. even, they might not.

And I need you to clean up your stink of taxes. You don't want the IRS in your life. And you need to cut up your credit cards and sell your truck and move down and get your income up. And that's your solution. And that's how you become a Baby Steps millionaire.

Okay. The credit cards, I'm already in default on quite a few of them. Yeah. Okay. Cut them up.

Okay. All right. No problem there. They're no blessing. They're already done.

They're no blessing. Plastic surgery is you and your life, my man. And chop them up, and let's make a, you know, start doing a written budget. But the thing is this, you're by yourself. You're a solopreneur.

You are a great carpenter. You suck at marketing. And so this feels out of control to you. where Ken and I are, sitting on the outside. We see your income potential to be much larger than you feel like it is in your emotions, because you're by yourself and there's nobody around you saying, dude, you got this.

And we're telling you, dude, you got this. So, hypothetically, you could do all of the work you're doing right now as a side job and work a day job as a carpenter in about 20 minutes. Yep. And you get your income up over six figures doing that and get this mess cleaned up, get the truck moved down and then build you out, learn, start learning some marketing stuff, start learning how to run a business and not just be a carpenter. And you can build your side business back up to a full-time gig again.

Yeah. And that's probably what I would do in your shoes, because I just think you're, I'm with Ken. I think you're in an ideal situation in terms of your career. Yeah. I mean, you didn't call me up with a sociology degree.

If I was in Phoenix right now, Dave, I would make him drive me to construction sites all over the city where they're building homes. And I'd say, you got a clean t-shirt. All right. No, your jeans look sharp. All right.

Get the tool belt on and walk up and say, where's the foreman and say, I'm a carpenter. I'm ready to go. You might be surprised. within about two hours, you'd probably be working. If not with a gig, that's how low the shortage is right now on carpenters.

That's a fact. That's not my opinion. Yep. And by the way, it's summer in Phoenix. That's true too.

Hey, good folks. Dr. John Deloney, here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it.

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Thank you for joining us. America. buying a house in this market is crazy. Selling a house in this market is crazy. It's wild out there, y'all.

You need to have a pro in your corner if you're going to be moving property right now. And I do recommend you buy a house right now. It's a great time. I do recommend you sell a house right now. It's a great time.

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They're the best of the best. They're Ramsey trusted. You can find out who's Ramsey trusted in your area for free at Ramsey solutions.com slash agent. James is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, James.

How are you? Good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing better than we deserve? What's up?

Um, so I want to say thank you so much for taking my call. And I appreciate what you and Mr. Coleman, Mr. Kim, what everybody does. It really is a blessing.

So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Um, my question is, I guess, kind of related to the previous caller that you spoke with, but, um, I'm kind of at a point where we've been working on baby step number two. Um, we've got all of our credit card debt paid off.

We're done with it. Um, we were making the headway. I lost my job back in April. Um, so I'm having to, luckily, Lord, Lord blessed me with another job. Um, but it took about a month and a half.

And so it's kind of set us back. But my question is long story short, what can I do to, to, to help my family advance my career? Cause I'm, I feel stagnant and the job that I just got was a lateral move. Um, I wanted to advance my career and move up, but it just seems like that most companies right now just want me in a lateral position. All right.

So let's start with where you want to eventually go. So we're going to advance to what? What's the operations manager of what? Um, I'm a project manager of resident, a residential construction company. Okay.

And operations manager does what in that role? Um, well, I guess more or less bring in business, um, you know, hire, uh, a lot, you know, uh, hiring, uh, keeping business, keeping customers happy. Sure. Um, I guess, you know, making sure the day-to-day is, is, is, you know, rolling smoothly. All right.

And then is, and forgive me for my ignorance, operation managers at one, two, three steps above where you are now, what does that look like? Oh, it's one step. One step. Okay. The reason I asked you to describe the role of operations manager, where you want to be is because that list, how you described that to me, uh, with each of those duties that you listed out, there is a skill set.

There's skill. So I'm going to have to learn the skill. Uh, and there's also experience that you're going to need to get right to step into that, or at least get to the point where they say, okay, James, uh, you are ready. You are qualified. And so understanding what you need to add to your tool belt is really vital.

That's why I went through that list. And so now is the time to begin to say, uh, how can I go about getting that skill where I am? So, in other words, I've got to look at the next and figure out what it's going to take to get there, but then, don't miss this vital thing. And that is you got to win in the now, you know, uh, we all want to move up to a certain point. and, um, you're going to have to have some patience and you're going to have to earn your way up to that spot.

And so the way you do that is, uh, this is a three-step process that'll guarantee that you will get promoted. If, in fact, you're in a company that has a track record of promoting. number one, you got to know your role. That's absolute clarity on what your leader wants from you right now. You must crush the now by knowing exactly what you're supposed to do.

Now, number two, you need to have an attitude of, you know, what, not down in the dumps. I need to be grateful that after I got laid off, I stepped into another role, and it's taking care of me. It's stabilizing me in the now. third, I'm going to go above and beyond. Whatever they tell you, James, is what we want from you.

You find three or four or five or 10 ways to go above and beyond what they've asked you to do. And then you're looking at the next going, how do I get that experience? What would that skillset look like? How would I get it as a cert? Is it, you know, uh, asking to do a little extra work, pay it forward a little bit?

Hey, can I help out? This is the idea of James, because you become so good. They can't ignore you. That's your theme. How many of those skills that you need for operations manager, uh, can you work on while you're being a project manager?

How many of them overlap? Um, that, that was part of the, I don't know how. that's the reason. I mean, I'm not a very intelligent fellow, but I try to find out and find ways. And, uh, that was one of the, one of the reasons why I wanted to go.

I mean, if you list out, okay, these are the five things an operations manager does. How many of those does a project manager do? And probably some, okay. Are you working with customers? So, I mean, you're, you're running, you're running a particular job.

The operations manager is running all the jobs. So that's very similar. Okay. And in both cases, you're working with customers. You probably have some interface with customers, just like an ops manager does.

And so you keep thinking about the different ways, you know, you're, how much of what you're doing is a miniature version of an ops manager that you can use to, to sharpen those particular skills and then demonstrate that either for the next person, that, that, that another place is looking for an ops manager, or the next time they hire an ops manager at the place you're at today, that's what I'm looking for. But I think you need to clearly define what it is exactly that is needed, that you don't have to move up into that and then go, get it. That's right. And, um, my friend Henry Cloud says, figure out what your desired future is. Well, we did that.

You have a desired future, being an ops manager, and then ask yourself what must be true. that is not true. today, to make that desired future of mine happen? What must be true? And you go, okay, there's these six things I've got to do.

These four things I've got to do. And in order for this to become, in order for this to come true. And then, then you start putting a timeline and a budget to what it's going to cost to get those five or six things and cause this to happen. I think you're in great shape. You're going to get there.

You're going to get there. Nate is with us in El Paso, Texas. Hi, Nate. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Um, so I have about $36,000 in debt. Um, and I heard you take a caller the other day and you were talking about the difference between the snowball and avalanche methods. And, and you mentioned that you, you pretty much, uh, we'll always recommend the snowball, cause the math supports that one over, over the avalanche. Um, but the, the several different colors that I heard, um, that that was your recommendation. They had interest rates for the majority of their debt that were in the general range of like, you missed the point of all those calls.

The interest rate doesn't matter. How much debt do you have?

36,000.

. Uh, what do you mean? Uh, about 75 K. Okay. And what's the 36,000 on?

Uh, I have two car loans, uh, one credit card, um, and, uh, some medical bills, and then a handful, a small handful of that I owe to individual people, but there's, how much are the car loans? Uh, one of them is for 9,000.. The other one is about seven. Okay. All right.

So that's 16 of your 36.

. Then you got 20 more. How much of that's medical bills? Eight. Okay.

So you got 12 in credit card debt.

Uh, I have, I have, uh, six in credit card debt. And the remainder is to individual people. So I rest my case. It's irrelevant. It's only 6,000 bucks.

If the interest rate was a hundred percent, cause it doesn't amount to any money.

Okay. The actual dollars, the $6,000 worth, multiplied by the interest rate creates, is not much. So you don't have a, an interest rate problem there. You don't have a math problem. If you were doing all this math, you wouldn't be here.

So math is not your problem. You're, you guys cutting your budget to nothing, taking six jobs and attacking. this is your problem. Listing your debts smallest to largest, which, by the way, when you do that, we'll get rid of your credit cards first anyway.

So the first order of business is going to be pay off the credit cards, right?

Yeah. You don't have a 20% interest rate on those cars. Do you?

The both car loans and the credit card are all at 22%. Oh, you need to sell cars, man. Quit buying. God, what are you doing? How do you get screwed like that on a car?

22% on a car? Good God. Yeah. Sell a car and get you a hoopty 20 minutes from now. That's just, that's nuts.

What are you saying, Dave? You didn't like that car purchase. Is that what I'm hearing? you say? 22% for a, I'd be riding a bicycle.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, on the debt-free stage. Malik is with us. Hey Malik, what's up?

What's up, Dave? Ken, so nice to meet both of you. It's been a long time. I've been following you. So good to be here.

Well, it's so good to have you. Where do you live? Warrington, Virginia. Close to D.C. I know where.

that is. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. How much debt have you paid off, Malik?

Glad to be back. I paid off $78,000 in debt. Alright, cool. How long did that take? Took about 26 months.

Good for you. And your range of income during that time? The start of the 26 months it was $49,000 and by the end of it I was making well over $70,000.. Cool. What do you do?

I'm a worship pastor, full-time. That's what I do. That's what the start of it was, and I still am a full-time worship pastor. I also did some side gigs, a lot of piano lessons, voice lessons. Any kind of lessons that I knew how to do, I was teaching.

That's a good use of your talent. Well done. There we go. I'm also now a dog sitter on the side as well. But worship is the thing.

There you go, man. Well done. Very cool. So what happened? two years and some change ago?

that woke Malik up? Tell us your story. I was about 25 years old, and the church that I work at, we get paid once a month. And by day 17, I had no more money left because I had financed myself into a corner. I had a bunch of credit card debt, a bunch of car debt, student loan debt, and I also didn't know how to manage my money.

So by the time, I just got sick and tired of being paycheck to paycheck, so I had to figure out how to get out of debt, basically, how to make more margin in my income. So I typed in how to get rich on YouTube, and I found your videos. So I started following them, did the zero-based budget, switched to a cheaper gym, switched over to a church parsonage. Anything I could do to create more margin? that way, I did.

I got better at grocery shopping. And then, after that, all that money, principal payments on the debt snowball, I got into the freelance thing. So I started making more money on top of that, and then it just happened. so, so quick. Very cool.

Very cool. Good for you, man. Yep, yep. Good for you. So you were getting after it.

It was probably too intense, but we're done. Hey, we're out of here. We're out of here. Check it off, 26 months of my life and no more debt. ever again.

Ever again. Ever again. I love it. So really, your reason was, I just don't want to be in this stress. I can't make it.

I can't make ends meet. I've got to do something different. What I'm doing is not working. It wasn't working. A healthy level of disgust.

Yeah, it took a long time. For about four years, I was terrible with money. Didn't know that I was terrible with money. But the principles, the baby steps, they really saved me in my finances. Now we're having a good time.

On a practical level, how would you tell the audience leading worship feels now that you're debt free? Well, ironically enough, you were supposed to lead from a place of freedom and liberation, all of those things. And when you are enslaved by your situation, the situation that I put myself into, there is always something in the back of your brain, before and after your rehearsals, before and after your meetings with the congregants, before and after your worship sets. that feels like a tad hypocritical, I suppose. But now you can walk around a little lighter.

I'd like to think my job performance is a little better, a lot better than it was. Well, your spirit's better. I guarantee it. Yeah, I'm having a good time. I don't know that you were necessarily doing a bad job before, but the lightness with which you approach it, the heaviness, is gone, right?

Yeah. Almost sounds like a worship song. Yeah, very good. We can write one. I bet.

We couldn't, but you might. I was going to say, we could, Dave and I, we'll listen to yours. The reason we're in talk radio, brother. It's so true. Hey, man, congratulations.

What was the one dad that was driving you nuts, and you're like, when that one went, you went, yeah, you're gone, finally. The interest on the car, it didn't move. The interest was so high that the principal, it took me about a year and a half to realize that there was no dent being made by just the monthly payments alone. So you had a ripoff car payment. Yeah, those were, I don't remember the interest rate, but it seemed like it didn't move at all.

So just having no car payment, I drive a very modest car, 2011 Honda Accord, but the fact that I never have to pay a car payment ever again, it's the best feeling. Yeah, that's a different fee. They drive different when they're not pulling a payment book. Yeah, honestly. Yeah, that's very cool.

Who was encouraging you? I found the program through a church in Orlando, Florida. They did it, and I just so happened to be visiting on one of their small group nights, so that was where the exposure started, Hope Church in Orlando, Florida. But me and my best friend, he's right here, we did Baby Step 2 for the longest time together. So any time I never wanted to give up, but any time it was getting ghetto, so to speak, we really kept each other accountable.

So I owe him and a lot of other people back in Virginia a lot of thanks for listening to me. yap about it all the time. Well, congrats. Way to go. Did you have people making fun of you or just kind of rolling their eyes?

Yeah, a lot of people did not understand it.

They didn't understand the fact, the magnitude, the urgency that I had for it. But for me, it was kind of, I didn't have enough of an income to not get out of debt. A lot of my friends make a lot of money, so they can kind of do whatever they want, but I needed that margin, and it was getting out of all those consumer debts. And I think everyone should live that way. But yeah, a lot of people did not understand why I was doing what I was doing, and at this point, I don't care.

Yeah, I hear you. So there's a person out there. that's right where you were 30 months ago, two and a half years ago, and they got a paycheck, and it just didn't make it. They got too much month left at the end of the money.

Talk to them. Rewind that one more time. Well, if they, there's a person out there, right where you were 30 months ago. It's the 17th of the month. What is today?

The 18th of the month, and they're out of money. They have too much month left. at the end of the money. The paycheck's gone. What happened to you, right?

Yeah. And you were freaked out and scared and stressed, and your heart rate changes, and you got to do something about it. Talk to that person. We're going to start by selling a lot of stuff in your house.

That's going to get you to your next paycheck. And then we're going to just make some life decisions, because, if they're anything like me, they were living way, way, way above their means. So we're going to stop the AutoWash subscription that you had. We're going to stop the Netflix. We're going to stop all of it, and we're going to just start tackling it, one debt at a time, just being very disciplined, because we have no other choice.

There's so much at hand when it comes to our finances. A lot of kingdom impact could be made if we had more margin. So many things are on the balance when it comes to our personal finance. So just take it very, very serious. Get someone in your corner, and day 17,, day 18, so on and so forth, until your next paycheck.

You just got to have that locked-in mentality that you are going to make a difference. Yeah, you reach a point, you're saying never again. Never again. Never again. I'm never going to be like this.

I'm never going to feel like this again. I'm putting all of this in the rearview mirror. I am done. I am walking out of this valley. Absolutely.

Well done, sir. Proud of you. Yep. Excellent job, hero. Very, very cool.

Oddly enough, the numbers are very similar to the guy who just called and wanted some kind of a trick to get out of debt. That's exactly right. And he had a high interest rate car debt and high interest rate credit cards, and he had less debt than this guy had, than Malik had. So way to go, Malik. Good job.

All right, Malik from Virginia. $78,000 paid off in 26 months, making $49,000 to $70,000.. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

This is how it's done. Yes, yes, yes.

Our scripture of the day, Joshua 1, 8, Keep this book of the law always on your lips, Meditate on it day and night, So that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.

Brian Tracy said, Failure is a prerequisite for great success. If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure. Well, there you have it. There you go. That's how that's done.

Just learning that Bob Newhart passed away. So sad. So many classic things he did as a comedian. The old Bob Newhart Show is where Daryl and his other brother, Daryl, came from. Yes.

And you may not remember anything else, but you remember that, right? That's right. And he did a great comedy bit on counseling from the Bob Newhart, too, where anything someone came in to be counseled on, he would just listen to them for a few minutes and then he would yell, Stop it! Just stop it! That was his whole counseling.

It was great. I kind of feel like him some days. I think that's effective. Just stop it! Quit!

It's effective sometimes. Don't do that anymore! Yeah, that's it. It was great. But rest in peace, Bob.

He gave us a lot of joy and a lot of laughs over the years. Pretty incredible. Anna is in Toronto. Hi, Anna. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. I'm excited to talk to you guys. You too. How can we help? Well, Dave, you've helped me and my husband a lot with our finances, so I really appreciate that.

I'm calling mostly today for some career advice. So I've been waiting to hear Ken Coleman's voice, and I heard it today, so I thought I would give you guys a call. It's such a soothing voice.

My wife and kids would disagree, but thank you, Dave. Anna, what's going on? Well, I've been a teacher probably about 23 years now, and I hesitate to say I'm burnt out because I still like the work of teaching, but I am not liking my day-to-day job, and I have done quite a bit of changing already within the system. So I don't know if it's just a public school thing, but I just would like to find other jobs that I could do. I know, I'm sure there are a lot with the skills that I have, but I'm also hoping to find something that has comparable pay.

Teachers in Canada actually make decent money compared to…. So I make $107.. Wow. Okay, let's start right where you led us to, which is skills. I want you to tell us the top skills that you have acquired in your 23 years of teaching.

Probably listening. I've always been really good at listening. I like finding out what problems exist, I guess, for kids particularly, and figuring out how to help them have those lightbulb moments that I'm really good at, and I enjoy that. Just creative problem-solving, I like that too. And I find a lot of joy being around kids, but I'm not finding a lot of joy in my work.

Okay, which is what? My guess is, this is not what you're doing, it's where you're doing it. My guess is, and I've counseled so many teachers here in the U.S. and in Canada, the environment is just getting worse and worse and worse. Yes, and so if the environment were different, you would enjoy the actual engaging of instructing the children, yes or no?

Yes, yeah. So real quick, list out a couple of things that just come right to the top of your mind. you enjoy most, the stuff that gives you the most joy when you're actually teaching.

I think just seeing the engagement and the enthusiasm,

and finding creative ways to help the kids express things that they want to share, those things for sure. I just find there's so much interruption and so much behavior and so much craziness, it's like you never get to enjoy that stuff anymore. Let me list out for you very quickly what I wrote down as I listened to you. I asked you the top skills, and I wrote down listening, asking questions, discernment, critical thinking, creative problem-solving. And then I wrote down, I asked you, what do you enjoy most about teaching?

It was the engagement. It was the progress. In other words, you love seeing light bulb moments when people get it. That's what gives you the juice, correct? Yes.

All right, so here's the deal. So what we have to do is you have to stop thinking about the negative environment. What you have to focus on is that little exercise we just went through. And so now we've created a job description. So where in Canada, in the marketplace, can you use the skill set of communication, of instruction,

and then actually engage with people who want to be there to learn? So let me tell you where I start to ideate. Okay, and I'm not in any way limiting you to this, but I want you to understand the process. I immediately start thinking corporate training, HR training. That's what my husband said to me.

Well, you and your husband, your husband's, a smart guy.

So, you know what, that's right. Listen, any kind of role where you are instructing, you. walk in day one, Anna, with experience and skill. And listen, if you can teach a child, my goodness, you can revolutionize the life of an adult who actually wants to learn, right? So I would begin to look throughout the marketplace.

This is an instructive role, whether it's called training. I don't care about job title. You must look at the job description, and it must include what you enjoy, which is, I want to be able to impart knowledge to people and see the light bulb of learning and progress as the result. And it's that simple. And now, now we got to start looking at the comparative salary, though.

Okay, so. That's where I'm struggling, too. That's okay. We got to look first. We've got to see what's out there, and we've got to see, okay, what would the path be?

And so there's four qualifying questions I wrote about in Paycheck to Purpose. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much is that going to cost? How long will it take?

If you just answer those four questions, Anna, this feeling right now that you have of frustration and intimidation, it's because of the unknown. Those four questions, what do I need to learn? What do I need to do? So one is the education or certification or some type of skill. I got to acquire it.

And then experience is what I need to do. Then how much is that going to cost me? That's money and time. And then how long is all this going to take? And what happens is, Anna, when we answer those four questions, you're so good at this, of process, you're going to see a plan develop.

And all of a sudden, it's not intimidating. You're going to say, wow, I can absolutely stroll into something else. Let me tell you where I've seen some teachers land. What we call in marketing, we call it technical sales, where the sale involves teaching the buyer about the product or the service and how to do it. An example of that would be medical device sales.

Great point. So if you're installing a hip, if you're installing a knee, if you're installing a heart valve, if you're installing whatever, these are technical things. Now, you'd have to learn the technical stuff. But I know people that came in with a marketing degree and learned the technical part, and they basically don't do a lot of, quote, unquote, sales. They basically are instructing surgeons, sometimes in surgery, live.

That's an example of a technical sale. Another one would be something in the manufacturing world where you've got an engineering item. You're selling a highly sophisticated piece of equipment or whatever. But, I mean, anything that falls in that heading of technical sales, really good money in all of that. Exactly right.

And it always involves instruction. And it sounds like it's a sales job, but it's not really. Not at all. Not at all. You're exactly right, Dave.

It is the idea of I'm going to share knowledge with you that is going to help you progress. And that is at the heart of every teacher. They want to see their students learn something so that they can progress. It is they love progress. They love pouring into somebody.

You see mental traction. You do. It's why, by the way, that you for years have said, when we advise our audience to go sit with a smart vest or a pro or any of our trusted services, do they have... The heart of a teacher. And why?

Tell people why that matters. Well, because the person has to learn to be a good investor. That's right. They can't be doing just what somebody else says. Yeah.

Good question. Good question, Anna. You're going to be great. You'll be fine. You're going to be great at the next stage.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show. In the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

guys. I'm Rachel. And I'm George. And you've probably heard our voices before on the Ramsey Show. And do we have a surprise for you.

Yep. We have our very own show, Smart Money, Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and, of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about? So much, Rachel.

Not enough. And yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting. I'm glad you're taking such a stand. And we also talk about something else.

I'm passionate about, Disney adults. George. Why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure.

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say.

We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will.

We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.