Today's Lesson: Stop Taking Out Loans

Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshall, and we are talking about your relationships, your money, your retirement, building, wealth, the work that you do, that you may or may not love. We're talking about everything. If you want to be on this show, give us a buzz at 888-825-5225.. It's 888-825-5225..

How you doing, guys?

We're good. What's up with you?

All right. So I'll try to keep it real brief. So I make really good money out here, out in Washington, but super, super unhappy.

How much is your happiness worth? You tell me. What's the dollar amount?

Well, I currently make about $42 an hour out here. And so you went all over time, a double time, it's really good money. But I'm stuck in two hours of traffic every single day, only driving 38 miles to home. The politics suck, the schools suck, I mean, there's nothing to do out here.

So go back, go back to my original question. You give me a dollar amount, dude, because, let's be honest, for a million dollars, not, I mean, objectively, there's not a lot, I won't do. But like, for $20, there's a lot, I won't do, right? So you tell me, what's your number?

Well, I mean, if I could make $30 an hour out there, I'd be happy because I know the cost of living is cheaper out there.

Well, that you're probably wrong on, but listen.

I don't know. I've never been out there yet.

Well, okay. Go ahead. No, you go, John.

Bro, get on a plane and come over here.

Well, actually, we are in February or March.

It's too long. Because here's why. You've already broken up with your girlfriend. that is where you live. No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no.

I know, I'm making a metaphor, okay? Pretend, you're dating where you live. You've already broken up with her. She just doesn't know. yet.

Yeah. And that's what I want, because I'm truly not happy out here, but I do love the money.

How'd you end up in Seattle? Where were you before Seattle and how'd you end up there?

I was in Arizona and my daughter from my ex was out here. And so we moved out here because I could make better money. And so, and I've just been stuck here because of the money, but I don't like it.

Dude. Hey, did you grow up with not very much?

Uh, yeah. Kind of.

Tell me about, how'd you grow up?

I grew up in a crappy family. I had to start, uh, God, it was, so. I joined the military right after I graduated high school and just been working, job to job to job, making low end money. And now that I'm making really good money, it's really hard for me to just let go of that.

It's hard because you, you attach your worth to a dollar amount, because since you were a little kid, that's been your ticket out. And what you've got in the meantime is a family who loves you and you haven't internalized it. That's worth way more than a dollar per hour amount.

Very true. But also I have to pick, but I still got bills and granted we can sell our house and we are coming out there in February or March.

That's too long. You're. don't make your kids.

I know, but we don't have the money to do it right now.

Bro, don't make your kids have a, an angry, frustrated dad. For six more months.

I mean, it's summertime there, you know, I provide, you know, they're able to do certain things during the summer and keeping busy, but you know, so what I'm doing is I'm cashing out my vacation. So I'm not going to take vacation at all this year. I'm cashing it all out, using that money to provide for the flight and the hotel.

Okay, Mike, why did you call us? You already know what you're going to do. Why'd you call us?

I just want to know if, you know, it's just, is it the right thing to do financially, or am I putting a mental block in it to stay here to provide or go out there to be, I?

don't know. I think your arms are wrapped around the dollar per hour amount you make. Like it's a Snuggie, like it's a pacifier and a blanket. And that is, that's the only thing that you look in the mirror and say, I have value and worth. And you have a wife and kids looking at you saying, we love you.

Oh, I know. I agree. I agree.

But that's your cancer right now. And until you detach from that, you're going to live in a house where you hate driving to work. You hate the job you do. You hate driving home from work. You hate where your wife and kids live.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, plus. our house needs so much work and God, shut up with all. that doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter.

I know.

All right, Jade, I'm. I'm going to be less than nice and I like Seattle, so go ahead.

You know what? I don't know why my mind is going on another train right now. And I think I don't know if this message is really for you or for the folks listening because you called in. But I think sometimes we really get we cling to the best scenario that we've ever had, thinking nothing like this will ever come along again. And in this case, maybe it's a money or a paycheck.

And I feel like I'm supposed to follow that up with how you like them apples, Mike.

No, I know. I agree. I agree.

You don't agree. You don't agree. As soon as you get off the phone, you're going to put your last pay stub and you're going to go, oh, forty two dollars an hour. Don't. Aren't we beautiful?

Oh, I would love to. It's just my job. If I were to transfer it, I know my pay would be cut in half. I've already looked into it. I could do other things.

OK, listen, listen. Here's your choice. Choose misery or choose joy. That's your choice. Choose misery or choose joy.

Don't rely on politicians or the health care system to do what you can do for yourself. We teach personal responsibility on the Ramsey Show, and that's why I'm excited to tell you how you can take your family's health into your own hands. A medical emergency kit from The Wellness Company. I got mine, and I can tell you this is not some rinky dink first aid kit with Band-Aids. It comes with real prescriptions, prepared by leading doctors to treat over 30 common illnesses.

This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225.

Hi. Close. Caroline.

Oh, my bad. So close. Not sweet, Caroline. Not sweet. What's up?

We had a very bad situation last year. We had just moved to Kentucky. My husband and I were out walking on our property with our little eight-pound puppy on. Our dog was attacked, like nine feet away from us, by the Belgian Malinois next door. We had to deal with-.

Wait, hold on. The Belgian what?

Malinois.

Malinois. What? Is that like a big dog?

I only know Belgian waffles. Yeah. What is that?

It's a police dog that the neighbor next door had. Oh, wow.

Okay. So it's a big, giant dog.

It's a very big dog, and he got over the fence and attacked our pet, our boy. Okay. Four days later, he died, but it was $9,000 in veterinarian bills. Yeah, it's awful. In fact, there are no words to describe it.

How many dogs do you have?

And we currently have two other papillons.

Okay. And you told me, I just want to make sure I'm clear, you said, out of the 9,000 of vet bills, he paid all but $1,500?.

Yes.

Okay. Hey, I hate that you lost your pet. That really does, that sucks. I can't imagine coming home and knowing that something like that happened to my dog. So, for the money side of it, here's what my brain thinks of.

That would be about $700 that we would have to save per year. Now that, that's a great amount of savings, but we are living on a fixed income where, even that, you know, whether I spend it on saving it or pet insurance, it's still money out of our...

I guess what I'm saying is the fixed income part doesn't matter. You're either saving the $30 or you're not.

Or the deeper question is, you can't afford this. I mean, even if we said, yeah, go get pet insurance, y'all can't afford it.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, but he's thinking anything to avoid, to be prepared, actually, to be prepared for something happening like that.

Do you guys have any money saved?

Oh, we have about 13K in the three to six months.

Okay. And do you not feel like, if something, you know, like I said, something bizarre, like what took place happens, something that you're completely not expecting, like a dog attacking your dog, do you not feel like that kind of falls under the umbrella of an unforeseen emergency? I guess I'm just trying to figure out why what you have in place is not enough.

Well, I guess we haven't figured that that could have been used for an emergency like that. Of course, that would wipe it out if something got your bitch happened again.

Yeah, but you're living in a state of what ifs. And I do feel like if I think there's two things that you can have financially in place that will help you. And then I do want to turn it over to John, because I think for you, having a sinking fund that's always there for pet maintenance, whether it be, you know, their yearly checkup or things like that, whatever you take them to the vet, having a sinking fund there for that, that's not part of your emergency fund is a good thing, probably for you to get, for you guys to have. And maybe that's you just putting aside, like I said, 30 bucks a month or and not or and you have your emergency fund for the things that are truly emergencies that pop up. And maybe you say, you and your husband, maybe you decide, hey, when it comes to pets, this is what we're willing to spend.

OK, here's the other side of it, or the extended side. I just had one of my professors and mentors, Andy Young. Dr. Andy Young was on my show this morning and he was just here in town. He's actually the guy that gave me the language.

So, of course, you know, it's one of those things you really can't plan for. Who would have known?

Well, exactly. But that's when. that's when these what I would call very, very fringe programs will swoop in. It's the same as if you buy a lamp at Best Buy. Like you want the nine dollar insurance plan.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years. And some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, Oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly. And they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills?

How am I going to eat next week?

Yeah. In the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that I'm like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And it doesn't cost much, because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

888-825-5225.

Good afternoon. How are you today?

Outstanding brother. What's up?

So a bit of a predicament I'm in. I currently have four kind of high interest loans that I've been making monthly payments on, with an additional loan that was sent to collections for $20,000 unsecured loan. I recently negotiated with the debt collectors to get a reduced payment of $12,000, which I was fortunately able to come up with through some very caring family and selling off a few personal items. And in my research, watching your guys' show and everything and reading online, it's usually suggested to pay off the active debt first. I'm curious what your opinion would be in this scenario.

So, to make sure I understand, you have these four loans. You were able to secure a deal on one of them?

Sorry, I apologize. Five loans, one of them's in collection, the other four are active. The one that's in collections, I was able to negotiate a deal on.

Yeah, the one that's in collections, you need to clear that one up, especially since you were able to secure a deal. The only thing that I would tell you is make sure you get it in writing first. Don't pay the payment until you get them to either email you or snail mail you a copy of what will happen when you pay the $12,000.. The balance will become zero. Make sure it's very detailed what the deal is.

I did already get it in email from them, from the debt collector. Over the phone, they had specified that. I asked them how it would be reported back to the credit agencies. And it stated that it would be reported as paid in full. However, in the written deal, I see that it says, if I pay the $12,000 on or before the 31st, it will be accepted as a full and final settlement of the account.

I think the second one's better. Full and final settlement of the account. That means it's over.

The word settlement just kind of struck, as this was settled for a lower amount, which I don't really want on my report, if I can.

But it was settled for a lower amount. And it's going to be, they're reporting it that way. So that is the way it is. Unfortunately.

I just want to make sure.

Two more things I want to add to that. real quick. You got a second?

Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

Do not, do not, do not, do not. let them do an automatic draft or automatic withdrawal of this money.

Okay. Now, I was thinking about doing a wire transfer. I got the information from them. Would paying through their online portal be advised or don't do that either?

If I'm, I'm just telling you what I would do in my house. Okay. I would go to my bank and I would open up a secondary account. Okay. And you can open an account underneath your main account, right?

Okay.

The second thing is.

Go ahead.

With that secondary account that you say to open up, zero it out and then, like, once they take that $12,000, close that account.

I would.

Should I.

Well, no. You will use their online portal and you'll put the dollar amount in there. We're not doing a draft.

Oh, I got you. I understand.

Yeah.

You stop taking out loans?

Yes. And so the downstream effect of that is, who cares what's on your credit report?

Gotcha. Understood.

So I don't care what somebody's putting on my credit report. We're done dancing with debt. And so I'm going to get these other four things paid off, ASAP, and then I'm going to be finished borrowing money. So put whatever you want on there.

Awesome, man. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate the advice.

All right, brother. Appreciate your call, man. Let's go out to Toledo, Ohio. Holy Toledo, and talk to Carly. Hey, Carly, what's up?

Oh, so I was looking into investment strength because I always wanted to retire like when I was like 50 or like younger than 59, like the normal retirement rate. And so I was reaching out to, like financial advisors and I came across one person and they said to get an indexed universal life insurance where I can pull against like when I'm 50.. And it, like, almost seems too good to be true.

How old are you?

I'm 21.

Okay. I really love the fact that at 21,, you're thinking about ways to build wealth and thinking about just, I mean, thinking about when you're 50.. When I was 21,, I was not thinking about the day that I would turn 50.. So I really, I applaud you on that. I think that shows that you're just a mature person and you want to do what's right with your money, which is great.

So I have a 401k and a Roth IRA that my old job used to pay into. And now I'm just depositing into it now, like about a hundred dollars a month, about like up to like $10,000 combined. And then my current job gave me a pension that I pay 10%. They pay 14%. And I could touch that when I'm 55..

Okay. So do you have any debt?

I own a house. So that's like the only debt I have.

Okay. Who are you? A 21 year old with all these retirement accounts, who owns their own house, who doesn't owe any extra money. You're amazing.

I love Dave Ramsey. I've been listening to him forever.

So what percentage of your income total are you investing at this point?

Probably less than, probably at like 15%.

About 15%. Okay. And I also want to know, do you have any other non-retirement savings? Like, do you have three to six months of expenses liquid?

Yeah, I have an emergency fund and like a high yield savings account that I control.

Listen, very good. Very good. I want to know who your parents are. This is excellent. Okay.

Okay. Dave Ramsey says get a life insurance policy. That's not like the full life insurance policy that he's talking about.

Term. life is what you need. And it's for people who depend on your income. That's the purpose of having life insurance. It's to replace income for people who depend on it.

There we go. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

It was a little weird. I got you, though.

Thank you. All right, you read it.

Several years ago, my husband was accepted into an out-of-state college program. We had just had a baby, so I had to continue working to support us, even though my goal in life was to stay at home and be a stay-at-home mom to raise our kids. Last year, he failed all of the board exams, and now I'm left feeling I gave up everything for nothing. I worked so hard to put him through school, and he didn't take it serious enough to pass. I lost time with my two kids when they were babies, and I resent that he was able to do what he wanted to do while I put him through school.

What do you say, mama?

You know, here's the thing. You had to have gone into this, knowing that there's always more options than what you're hoping will happen. That's my first thought. My first thought is you say, okay, of course, yes, the idea is you'll work, even though you didn't really want to. It'll help pay for school.

Take the boards, yeah.

It doesn't have to be the end of the road. There's more to this story. I don't know it. John?

Anytime you start keeping score in a relationship, especially in a marriage, it's over. It's over. Well, you got to do this, so I get to do this, and I get to do this. It is a group decision that we all make together, that someone's going to school. It's a group decision that we're going to move.

Can I bring something else up? I might be wrong, and you tell me, because this is your area.

You haven't proven that you're.

Yeah.

And we don't say like, no, you can't. That's not how we talk to each other, but I trust her wisdom, and I powdered about it for a few days, and then I look up and she was right.

So I kind of wonder, then. This is just me, because when you guys call in or write in, I'm filtering things through. Real talk. What if this happened in my life? I think part of the resentment could be, and I'm throwing a long shot here, just based on Jade.

All day. And it's easier to blame somebody for the choice that I made or I didn't speak up, or maybe this isn't a safe relationship and she felt like she couldn't speak up.

That's also true.

But here we are, two years later, three years later, however, many years later, he failed the boards. My first question is, can you go back and take him again?

Can you go back and take him?

Second, is, we all agreed on this.

Is this a point, John, where I hear you say all the time, guilt over resentment. Should she have felt guilty for saying, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to sacrifice this time with the kids.

Speak up.

I could go on this letter, I could go on about all day, because there's a lot going on here. The fact that what, glaringly, is obvious to me that I put him through school, that hurt me. I was like, yikes.

Because he's probably thinking, I missed out on X, Y, and Z because I was in classes in school. I missed out on time with my kids because I was in school day and night. By the way, for almost all of these type of situations, the question, how do I get over it? Starts with, I'm going to choose to move on. She won't make that choice to move on.

Can I highlight something else?

She feels powerful right now. He failed, she feels powerful and it feels good just to sit in it.

I want to highlight something else. The comments might badger me for this.

shut up, shut up.

It makes me, there's something there that I'm like, it. just, for me, it's a little bit of a flag as to, yeah, but you're not saying anything that he is to you. Does that make sense?

Absolutely.

I'm just throwing that out there. Seek counsel.

Seek counsel. Let's go out to Fort Lauderdale and talk to Eddie. What's up, Eddie?

Hi, good afternoon, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

You got it, man. What's up?

So I've done the Renzi-ish.

Hey, good job. How old are you?

Yeah. I'm 60 right now.

Okay, very good. I love that you've been diligent. You've paid off the house. You've got $1.1 million. Tell me a little bit more.

I'm done with credit cards.

Are you?

Doesn't sound like it. Well, I'm a very generous guy. So when I go out with my kids and all that stuff,

You're about to be on a fixed income. You're about to be on a very fixed income here. So I want to make sure that you understand that part of it.

Yeah. No, I know we have done the numbers, me and my wife, and this is only my side. She has no debts whatsoever. I know what you guys teach is your debt is our debt. But I wanted to fight this because she's really good and I'm really horrible.

Eddie, that ego is going to drown you, brother. That is 100% male ego. Let it ride. Let it ride, homie. That is going to bury you, Eddie.

Okay.

If I told you could get under the bank and take out a loan at 30%, would you do that? Oh, hell, no. Okay. That's what borrowing from your 401 is.

Hey, before you make this decision, I want you to sit down and work with one of our Ramsey Trusted Advisors on this, because you don't want to make this decision alone. I truly don't trust that you're ready to make this decision alone. You need somebody to look at the numbers. We'll put the information in the show notes for you to make sure you're talking with somebody who can tell you if you're truly ready to retire, considering your numbers and your wife's numbers.

Thank you so much for listening to us. This hour is in the books. We'll be back soon, right here on The Ramsey Show.

Hey, folks, Dave here. And I know some of you listen to the show waiting for a call that answers your specific question. Maybe you need help with budgeting or investing or saving your emergency fund. But wouldn't it be great if you could get the answers you need right when you need them?

Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is The Ramsey Show, where we talk about your money, talk about building wealth, we talk about your mental and emotional health, the work, you do, all of it. I'm John Delaney, joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls live at 888-825-5225.. That's 888-825-5225..

Fargo.

So many things I want to say about Fargo,

but I'm not going to. Why are you saying it like that?

Let's talk to Amanda. What's up, Amanda?

Hi. Am I on or not?

You are on in front of all dozen of our listeners. What's up?

So we consistently create some financial gain, and then we consistently fall back down into the pit. A lot is usually due to our layoff.

How many layoffs? How many times has this happened?

It happens twice a year. So we have a week off in July, and two weeks off in December and January.

So you know that they're happening every time?

Yes.

OK. So that actually makes sense. Say again?

We plan for it. We have enough money to make it through. We've reached the point where we no longer have to take out debt in order to survive the layoff. We just...

So if you're planning for it, where's the problem?

Because I'm tired of falling back down into the same no savings, like it just doesn't seem to end.

So OK. So then I think we have a situation of we have different definitions. Because, for me, if you're planning for it, then there's no loss of gain.

It's a week.

One week. OK. And then I've got a two-month layoff January and December. Right? So I'm thinking, OK.

Yeah. It's pretty tight.

OK. So what's your husband earning?

I've never.

What are you and your husband earning?

I have not had a real job in 12 years. Why? I'm a state-owned mom and I homeschool my children.

OK.

He makes $45 an hour with zero benefit. No PTO, no sick time,

What type of work is it?

I use a contractor in a factory. He's a contractor.

And no benefits. OK. What... Tell me more about Fargo, North Dakota. Why are you guys staying there?

That's what the Lord has called us. We... My husband, is very involved in the ministry. We're in the process of starting a church and we just... We're very involved in our home life, and...

So you think the Lord calls you to a situation where you're terrified of your ability to feed your family every month?

Well, we're not that bad. I have at least three months supply of food in my house at all times. OK. It never goes below that. But I don't really feel like it's time to leave the town that we're in.

Is he working 40 hours a week?

Right now, he's doing 50 to catch back up and put more in.

OK.

So.

So, before taxes.

Well, today was $2,168,, I believe, with today's paycheck.

Yeah, but I mean for the month.

It varies.

What was your household income last year?

I don't really know.

OK. OK, I think that's part of the problem. That is a big part of the problem. So, the first thing here is, if I ask somebody what they're making and they don't really know, then I know they can't be keeping a clear budget and a tight budget, because that's just part and parcel to it. It's a month to month.

I do a month to month budget. I don't do a year budget.

And I wouldn't advise you to. I would advise you to do a month to month. but when you're doing a month to month, you still have an idea of here's about what we bring home. Here's a good month. Here's a bad month.

I am nervous. I do know the numbers, if not in front of my computer.

I got you.

And it's also hard because he, just he just got fired from his job and now he's got a different job. So he's got five dollars an hour less to pay. So I don't really know.

Okay.

So we've had a big change.

Are you doing an every dollar budget?

I don't know what that means. So here's how I run my budget. My budget is everything is in a spreadsheet. Every bill we have is in my spreadsheet. I have the total at the bottom and then I have that divided by four, because that's how many paychecks we get in a month.

I'm going to simplify your life. I'm going to simplify your life. Before we get off this call, I'm going to make sure you get set up with every dollar. It's going to make it so simple. It's going to be at your fingertips.

Yeah, I put $300 away every paycheck.

Right, but we want to make sure what you called in and said is, even though we're doing that, I still feel like we're going backwards. And so I want to make sure that that doesn't happen anymore. So do you guys, on top of the money that you put aside for his off months, do you guys have three to six months of expenses?

No.

Okay, that's.

not even close.

That's the goal. That's what we want to get to, because if you have three to six months of expenses, if you have another fund set aside for when he's laid off, then you're not going to feel that way. And, by the way, if you haven't started paying off debt, that's probably going to be a step in this process too. So hang on the line. We're going to get you set up with Financial Peace University, because I have a feeling that you're doing a lot of the right things, but they may be out of order and there may be a way that we can really optimize this for you and really help you get to a point to where you feel like you're only going forward and you're never going backwards.

This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey. Hi, Jade and John. So I'm trying to figure out how bad or how good my situation actually is. I'm 68.. I'm retired.

Okay. So you're on the phone. fixed income. Right now, is that fixed income enough?

It is just enough. I have to type my... I don't have a complete handle on those annual expenses that pop up.

Okay.

And so I've been a little overspending, but I feel like with what I have I can get a handle on the annual and I can definitely cover my basics.

Okay. And the mortgage, how much do you owe on it?

$350,000.

Okay. And what's it worth?

And I will say I am committed to keeping this house because of an obligation to a family member. Okay. And so that's... And plus my whole life, my whole retirement, is built around this land here, which has a small farm and income potential. So I just want to say that's not on the topping block at this point.

Listen, that's your choice and I'm not opposed.

A 30-year fixed under 3%.

Okay. And how many years have you been paying? Basically, when do you pay it off?

Like two.

Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah.

So I'll be quite old.

88.

No. And... And it's not in order to save money. I mean, one of my questions is assuming I can make some more money. I think I have some ways to bring in a little extra money.

And I would do that.

And if I did that, would I invest it or would I pay off this mortgage that doesn't have much of a chance of ever actually impacting my monthly experience?

I would invest it because walking through the baby steps, the next baby step for you would be to be investing 15% of your income. And in this case, probably anything that you get above and beyond right? Would go towards that. So for that reason I would. And the truth is, I mean, like you said this...

Okay. And the other part of this question is how bad off am I? Should I be like my feet are on fire? I have to make more money? I would.

because, like you said, you don't have much wiggle room and all it takes is for something to go wrong, and you're like scrambling. You're in this house, hopefully everything's good, but you also have a lot of land, and when I see that, I'm like, okay, there's a lot of opportunity for things to require money. and so, even though you have six months of expenses saved, if something happens and whittles it down to three months, well, how long is it going to take you to bump it back up? Right? You don't want that to take forever.

Tell me about this family obligation.

I finished this house with three living spaces and with a promise that my cousin could retire here and save for life. and I'm not breaking that promise, and she's here and we both want to be here for life. you know so all the activity and the way I plan to live my retirement is tied up in this land.

Is she contributing in any way?

She has, but it's not a monthly cash, so the contribution is done. so it does not help me in a monthly way. Okay. Yeah.

I just have to be honest with you. you say you were 68?. Yeah. Okay. It scares me for you.

Yeah? Yeah.

It scares me for you simply because you're entering into a space where.

Right.

And so it's um, I've got some acreage out here outside of Nashville and I feel like every month something comes up. I gotta pay for that I didn't expect. Right. There's something with the well or something with the power, or something with something. Right.

right, right, yeah, I mean there are definitely situations that could lead to changing that. and then, you know, maybe in 20 years we'll, you know, we'll both be ready for something different.

maybe yeah, but to back up what Jade said about the investment, if I were you and you still have the ability, I would be out there hustling work tomorrow.

I think you have to

I could get one job, two job, and I would dump that into investments. it'll double every seven years. and so think 21 years from now they will have doubled and then doubled and then doubled again, whatever amount you put in there.

yeah, you have to think of this, as you've made two choices. if you've made the choice to keep the house, then you've also made the choice that you're gonna continue working, and I think as long as you do it like that, you'll be okay. and to answer your question, if you're on fire, I would say you know Scoville meter, you're probably pretty far up there. it's pretty hot, it's pretty hot, but you gotta work. as long as you work, you can keep the temperature down.

as long as you work and you put that money away. this is the Ramsey Show.

such a good question and no one wants to admit that they maybe don't know to your point. so a lot of people hear the term retirement investing, or my retirement account, and they're afraid to ask really what this means. why is it different from other investing? because it's something that, as adults, we feel like we should know. right, you don't want to be today, years old when you find out about it, but luckily it's really not you who wants to know, it's your friend.

ok, right here it says right here, in this account we have 401,000 dollars. jackpot. you missed it.

nope, that says you have a 401k account. if you liquidate that right now, you'll have, you know, maybe 5,000 dollars.

so what happened to the other 396,000 dollars?

boom.

gotcha.

what is wrong with the two of you?

that sounds like me and Dave on a regular basis.

oh, my gosh, listen, we're laughing at it, but it's very true. I remember talking to somebody and I said well, are you investing at all? and they said, no, I mean I have my 401k, but no, and I was like oh, you are investing. do you have any debt?

no, I don't have any debt except for my car, my student loans and my mortgage, and that loan I took out on the pony. you're like. what are you talking about, right?

well, I mean the truth is, a lot of people you know, you go to your job and they get you set up and it's like do you want to invest? do you want to put money into your 401k? okay, you know, but they're not really explaining to you what's going on. okay, so let's learn about this today. let's talk about what retiring, investing actually means for your friend, who is confused.

I'm taking notes, I'm getting my loan on.

anything, any kind of earned income you have. you could say well, I'm gonna go out on my own and do my own retirement investing, and if that's the case, you would do an IRA right. it's basically an individual retirement agreement, I think, is what it stands for. and so that's you, aside from your job, saying I want to invest for retirement. and it's the same idea.

I'm ready. let's do this.

all right, you do the first one because you know this. what's one thing that you should have in place first before you start retiring.

an emergency fund. yeah, yeah, I gotta take care of my today before I start trying to plan for my tomorrow. I love.

that that is just like something that would be hanging on, yeah.

that's like stitching to a pillow like.

office like hanging in a frame. all right. so what I was testing John on is basically the baby steps right. so this is a format to know if you're ready to invest. first, if you have debt, we're gonna walk you through it.

money.

so you always start there, you invest up to your match and then for most of us, unless your 401k is a Roth because that's the best option there is unless it's a Roth, then you would say okay, I'm up to my match. now I'm going to go over and do a Roth IRA, max that out and then, once that's gone, then you could come back to your traditional 401k. finish that up and that is really really good. if you still have money that you can invest, then you could go and go into another type of account. that's a non-retirement account.

so like just to break it down for a simpleton like me.

go for it.

let's say I work at a company and they give me a 5% match and so I'm going to put 5% of my income into that account and take their free money.

that's right, right? yeah, the 5% is usually on income 5% of your income, and we get this.

question a lot. so that adds up to 10%, but we're going to put 15% of our own money into that account. so I put in 5%. now I'm going to loop back over here and let's say I can put up to 7% of my income and max out a Roth IRA. so now I've got 12%.

yeah, and you bring up a good point. so we teach 15% of your income goes away until you've paid off your house and then you can do whatever you want beyond that. but some people say well, Jaden, my match is amazing. I get a 7% match or a 10% match, or even 4%. fine, does that count towards the 15%?

multiple jobs, multiple jobs. I've worked. they've come in and said hey, we're having tough times financially. we're not going to lay people off, but we're going to drop the match to X%. and if they drop the match to X% and you've built that in, not a lot of people can then go okay during tough times.

that's so true. and hey, if you have more questions about investing, you can check out one of our SmartVestor pros and they can help you out.

this is the Ramsey Show.

hey folks, there's a lot of half-baked investing advice out there, but here's what you can do to get more confident about this stuff. check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor connects you with local financial advisors who have the heart of a teacher. they'll help you level up your knowledge and build a retirement plan based on your goals, not theirs. go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor to get connected and get more confident about your plan.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor, all right. here's the deal. I need your help, Jade, and I need your help. we have this amazing live like no one else cruise and it is almost sold out.

are you going to play your guitar?

I might play the guitar if George does. I will, because they're going to need to get that taste out of their ears. and so, yes, are you going to sing? you're singing, aren't you?

me and George are going to do a duet of more than words.

well then we're dueting. we're dueting saying I love, alright, here's the thing. we're almost out. we're almost out. VIP upgrades and many of the cabin types completely sold out.

that's correct.

ramsysolutions.

hey, how's it going.

we're doing? we're partying. what's up?

right on. I just wanted to ask if you feel that we're in a position to increase our mortgage to buy our forever home, or if we should be seeing foot and getting the mortgage gone.

okay, yeah, I want to help with that.

maybe give you a run down of where we're at financially. yeah, I'd love that. we've been doing the debt pay down, but backwards. so I started with the mortgage. so I stopped that.

okay. so let's think about it like this I love that. you're kind of getting back on track. you're paying off the debt, getting the emergency fund in place. is it three months or six months?

that would be four months.

four months. okay, are both you and your spouse working? yes, okay, I'm fine with four months kids. college is on track, so when you sell this house, what will it bring you? all said and done,

we got about $500 in equity on it.

and then the house that you're wanting to get it's $100,000 more.

yes, okay, it'll make our mortgage about $255 instead of $149.

okay, and what's the monthly payment? have you looked at the percentages?

well, I wanted to do it on a ten year, and that puts us at 22%.

listen, yeah, I'm like why not?

today kid, today, yeah.

instantly. I love that you're doing a ten year mortgage because you want to get this thing out of your hair. I love that it's only going to be 22% of your take home pay. I mean you're meeting all the parameters, and as long as you have peace about it, that's the final parameter. and so there you go.

my only challenge to you, Amber, is to unclench your fist around the words forever home.

yeah, fair.

because there's just no such thing and life just has a bunch of twists and turns. and it's the coolest home for this season. and same as I've got a cool jacket that I got one time from Filson that I love, and I have some cool hunting gear that I got from Sika, I don't wear those in the summer because it would be a thousand degrees right, and so for that season it's the best. and then we roll into spring and then we just do what's right in front of us. so I don't really believe in that forever house kind of thought.

okay, awesome.

good for you guys. congratulations, great, alright. let's roll out to Kansas City, home of Patrick, my homes, and talk to Jennifer. what's up, Jennifer?

hi, thank you for having me today.

of course, what's up, so?

we have a incoming senior. she's going to be a senior in high school, just trying to help her kind of figure out what the next step will be. so she's kind of a clean slate. just started working as a part time job, but really doesn't have a lot of money saved. you know anything?

have offered.

or said they want to give her $10,000 cash as a senior present, whatever it is total gift, but they have stated that they would really like for her to use this on a vehicle.

to take that $10,000.

what's your hesitancy?

do what.

why does it bother you?

what's your hesitancy?

we weren't. I just think that's a lot of money that she could also have some of it in her savings to help her get started. should we discourage the full $10,000 to go to a vehicle?

here's the deal. once they give you the money, it's your money right, and if your apprehension is coming from the fact that you know that they have a record of giving and then those gifts come with strings, don't take the money.

no.

no strings.

if they're going to give you $10,000 and they're going to recommend that you use it to buy a car. if it was my house, I might buy a $7,000 car and put $3,000 in savings.

interesting.

or I might buy all $10,000. I don't know.

I think I push back on that a little bit because if I'm thinking I'm just again putting myself in these shoes, if I'm like, hey, my cousin could really use a car, I'm going to give him $10,000 to get a car and I say, hey, I know you need a car. this $10,000 is for a car and they kind of do something else with it. I think you can put something on a gift you can.

but you just get to decide whether you want to take that gift or not.

right and in this case.

I take it okay. we were starting the conversation about her getting a car. we were wanting her to stay more in the $6,000 range. so now that she has the opportunity to be $10,000, do we still say take the $10,000 and go, or do we say I would?

because before it was you saving up or you guys helping her, but now you really do have a free gift, a $10,000 car. it's going to. it's going to get her a great vehicle.

it'll get her through college and beyond.

yeah, beyond, and then that frees up more, because you're not, you're no longer saving for that. that frees up more of the money to do what you want to do, which go towards savings, whether it be for college or whatever. what have you?

okay. so if you're yeah, if you don't want to do the savings, spend $7,000 on a car, put $3,000 savings, or whatever ratio you want to come up with. let's say you spend all $10,000 on a car. I would put a dollar amount. I might show her here's what semester one of college costs and we're going to be saving towards this dollar amount because a lot of kids say I'm going to start saving for college and it's kind of an amorphous thing.

I'm with it. I'm with it. I think giving them a target is good for college. that was really really important.

Thank you so much for joining us. we'll be back very soon right here on the Ramsey Show.

How we're doing? How about you guys?

We're doing fantastic, man, What's up?

Um, well, let's start with the good. I don't have any personal debt between me and my wife. Um, we run a business and.

Tell me about it.

Well, we're the last of a dying breed, I'd say We're still here trying to eke out a living milking cows and I just can't make it scale. I can not make. I mean, I've worn out several pencils and I just can't. I can't make it work.

Can I ask a question? You made the the point of saying you don't have any personal debt. Do you have what you're considering business debt?

Yep.

Okay, how much?

That's all an LLC.

Okay, it's an LLC. Okay, but how much?

Uh, mortgage is 1.

Oh, man, You can't breathe, can you?

Nope.

How long you been farming?

Um, forever, Okay,

So, for those listening, Um, Normally, this is where someone calls and says they took out 1.

I'm fourth 130, 139 years.

This is you standing back and looking at a family legacy that's gonna be different after today, and that's a. that's a death and I'm, I'm sorry, I'm heartbroken for you.

Um, I mean price doesn't help anything for sure, Um. In 2015, I took over from my dad and I looked at the spreadsheet and it wasn't gonna work how he was doing it. so I borrowed. you know, I signed the paper and borrowed a half million bucks and.

Family land?

Uh yeah, 520 acres Golly.

dude.

What's?

Yeah, what's the payment?

Uh, $16,000 a month. Right now I'm paying the interest just a $10,000.

Okay,

What's your? What are you gonna owe them at the end of this year? What check do you have to write?

It would be $1.

You have to write them for the full amount. they're calling the note?

They would be calling the note Yeah.

And you can't make that?

Not with the current amount of cows I have right now.

What would it take?

100 cows.

What do you got?

I'm milking 100 currently I'd have to. I'd have to be 200 plus.

Jeez.

So what's the, what's the worth of this land?

Pardon?

What's the worth of the land?

Um Uh Still over $1.

So can you, I mean I, I don't want to be the one to say this, but I think selling it is worse than foreclosing on it.

You're in a hard mess, brother.

Yeah, I mean I can If I had.

$100. Are you breaking up or are you thinking through this?

Sorry, I was getting away from my phone. Um, You know if I could get into $100?

Adam.

It's better overnight.

But that causes you going into debt, right?

You've been doing the stands for a long time.

Yeah, my total assets is like $2.

Okay.

What happens if you would go that route and you at least get to keep the land and keep your home?

Turn your land into a grazing property or get with these guys who I just love, the carbon cowboys, and just run cattle for a while. It's better than losing 500 acres of generational property.

Yeah, it would be better than losing it. I mean that's my biggest fear.

I've toured old dairy farms, man. It's staggering, but here's what I know. I've toured old dairy farms. I've got one in my family.

That's what's most important in this whole equation.

Yeah.

I know. I got you. I got you. Hey, we're coming up on a commercial, brother. I'm going to hold you over because I want to keep talking to you for a minute, okay?

Download every dollar for free today.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are talking to our friend Adam in Green Bay, Wisconsin. And Adam is a fourth-generation dairy farmer who, like countless other farmers across this country, is – and to quote Adam, burned up several pencils trying to make the math work on keeping this farm alive. And, as in many businesses, there's always another opportunity if we can just get to this next level and get to this next level. And Adam has found himself over a million dollars in the hole, and he's staring at a foreclosure at the end of this year that would take over 500 acres of generational property away and hand it to an investment crew out of New York City.

It's terrifying. It's all-encompassing. It's all I think about. You can't wash that off. Not like.

Are you a husband?

Yeah. Father to two little girls.

You're a father. Yeah.

Right.

And I know I'm being dismissive, but I'm trying to say you don't have an easy path ahead of you. You got two hard paths. And if you've ever heard me talk about shame, guilt is, I did something dumb when I took out that extra $600,000.. I was dumb. I did that.

We'll say both columns.

Okay. So fair enough. So what's your next right move?

The good news is you have an opportunity. You have an opportunity to do what John said. And, although it's going to be painful for you, you have the opportunity to start something brand new and do it the right way. And I think that that's what your daughters are going to take away from. this is, plenty of us make mistakes.

Yeah. Adam, this is a big one and we're not going to be able to solve this one here. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with both of my books here for free. I want you to have something that you can read while you're sitting there on the back porch, looking out over the field, and distract yourself a little bit.

How are you? Thanks for taking my call.

We're good. What's up?

Hey, a little backstory. About six months ago, I took a new job. Went from about $150,000, $160,000 a year down to $120,000.. A job I took didn't quite work out, unfortunately. And so I've been looking for the next move.

I would definitely go back. I mean, you're seeing what your value is in the marketplace. And so I think that it's fair. I mean, this happened. And it's great that your current position offered you more.

That's a great point. Okay. And just frame it just like that. Call me right back and say, hey, you know, I know it sounds uncanny, but I just got a call 10 minutes after we hung up.

Honestly, I would call him laughing. Like, you're not going to believe this, man. I just got one dropped out of the moon. And they're often bananas, money. And so me and my wife have to work through it.

Okay.

And listen, if he looks at you, I mean, if he talks to you on the phone and says, how dare you? You playing me, punk? Then you just dodged a bullet like the Matrix.

That's true.

And if he laughs with you and goes, God, I hate business. Let me go back and see what I can do, man. Because we really want you here. That's a guy I might take less money for to go have a family adventure with.

Rock on. I love it.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome.

And Andrew, I'll tell Andrew, Jade, we tell everybody, if you're good at what you do, there's always going to be somebody calling. There's always going to be opportunities. And so at some point, you have to settle into what kind of life do we and our family want to live? And the dollar amount is a part of it, but it can't be the end, all be all.

Yeah, it's a goalpost. The goalpost is always going to move. And you have to make the decision at some point to go, I'm content. Yeah. And I'm good with this.

Or what field do we want to put that goalpost on? But man, we got to make a life that we want to have.

Yeah.

And an extra 20, 30,000 bucks. when you have enough, it's not worth it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Listen, tickets for the Live Like No One Else cruise are selling fast. This is the ultimate debt-free vacation, and I can't wait to celebrate with all the folks who have worked their butts off and changed their family trees. We will be sailing through the blue waters of the Caribbean with the Ramsey personalities and other special guests. A bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, and I'm looking out into the lobby at all the beautiful people. And on the debt-free stage, we have Taylor and Meredith from Huntsville, Alabama, on the debt-free stage. That means you must have paid it all off. How much did you pay off?

Oh, yeah. We paid off about $220,000.. Whoa!

How long did that take you?

So a little bit over seven years. Good.

How about that?

Gosh, y'all kept going and going, huh?

Yeah, it was a while.

All right, so what kind of debt was this? $220,000?.

It was our house.

Dude, congratulations.

And student loan.

Student loans, and was the mortgage bigger than the student loans or the other way around?

The mortgage was bigger, yes.

Okay, all right.

Wow, very, very cool. What's the house worth?

So the house now is probably worth a little bit under $400,000.

Let's go.

I love it, I love it. All right, what in the world was going on in your life seven years ago that you said, let's just suck it up and get this thing done?

Yeah, so we're recently married, probably a little bit over seven years ago. Bought a house, had some student loans. I'm an engineer, a little bit of a numbers person, and just saw what we would pay in interest over time, and really just wanted to attack the loan to give us a little bit of financial freedom eventually.

That's a lot of financial freedom, eventually.

When you said, I'm a little bit of a numbers person, your wife smiled a bit, as though your bedroom is wallpapered in spreadsheets.

Big Excel guy.

You said that in a, it's not great. Lots of Excel, lots of Excel. All right, so you sat down, and, like a good engineering nerd, you said, honey, look, how much interest we're going to save. And how did you receive that?

Not so well. at first. I agreed with everything he was saying, but it was more difficult putting it into practice for me, I think. Just not spending money and saving and putting it towards the house, versus maybe going shopping sometimes. Sure, because that's not normal, right?

So we started out probably around $80,000, kind of first out of school, and Meredith graduated a couple of years after I did, and now we're around $230,000.

$230,000?

I mean, just one thing with that, during this period of time, Meredith's had multiple jobs. At one point, I think she had three jobs. Wow. Currently, she has a full-time job and then also a side gig. So she's really just attacked this, and, I mean, done a lot with two kids as well.

Yeah. I was going to say, there's also two little ones over there also.

Yeah.

Oh, go ahead.

I was going to say, how did you guys play this? Because part of it was the student loan, which, by the way, how much was the student loan? I think it was around $40,000 total. So you guys went into high gear for the student loan, and then usually people would kind of take their foot off the gas and kind of be like, okay, we've done this. We're going to save up our emergency fund, and then we're going to kind of lay back a little bit and kind of be more intentional about paying off the mortgage.

I think we definitely took our foot off the gas a little bit.

Yeah. When we had them, we kind of halted a little bit on the extra payments. So it took us maybe a little bit longer than it would have to save for them as well, for college and things like that.

We bought a minivan during that time. So Meredith now has a minivan and just, yeah, lived a little bit. A lot of trips, a lot of things with the kids. So been very fortunate to do a lot of that.

We live in a culture that wants everything. right now. You have this big motivational speech night where you turn all the lights off and you light the candles and get the essential oil diffuser going, and you show her these spreadsheets, and you'll have this big kumbaya moment. And then our culture tells us that everything needs to be fixed for the next day. What would you tell somebody?

I definitely had to learn that lesson. Right when I came out of college, I bought a truck with a loan and then eventually paid that off, years before we started this. But delayed gratification is something that I've definitely learned over time.

So you have this. why, down the street that just keeps pulling you along. Right. What about you?

I'd say I still struggle with delayed gratification a little bit. But yeah, I agree. Just knowing the reasoning behind it and looking forward to what's to come is the motivation. So how'd you celebrate? I don't know that we really have yet.

That's exactly right.

I need you guys to have a milestone. So if you could do anything, what would a big trip or a big celebratory moment look like?

So we're going to San Diego in October for a little getaway. So that's somewhat of a celebration.

Well, you all make it a big getaway. You make a quarter million dollars. You don't owe anybody anything.

You need to go to Europe. You need to go to Tahiti. You need to go somewhere.

We want a lake house eventually, so that's what we're celebrating.

All right.

Okay, okay.

So there's a guy who just got married, or a young bride who's still fit. She's got two years left in school. She just got married,

I'd say, being on the same page, communication, working through the budget, looking at that constantly, and having a good discussion on where we're going to spend our money, and both being in agreement there.

Yeah, I think, knowing it's going to be hard during the process, but that you'll be able to breathe on the other side of it is motivational too.

So I want to hear that story. Paint us a picture of you all hit, send on that last payment, and there's like the, ah, it's kind of cool, but then there's been days and weeks since then. Paint me a picture of what your life has been. now that you don't owe anybody anything. No one can take your house.

It's definitely freeing. You feel more lightweight, like nothing's weighing you down.

Yeah, and I'm in the world of contracts and things like that, so those come and go, and it's good to know that if something was to happen to my work, that I don't have to go find something right away.

Ah, gotcha. You've bought yourself the luxury of time and peace, and it's amazing. Good for you guys. All right, so are we ready to rip this thing off? You want to bring the girls up?

How old are they?

Abigail is four today, and Emma is.

She'll be two in September. Happy birthday, Abigail.

All right, all right. So we have Taylor and Meredith, and Abigail and Emma from Huntsville, Alabama, paid off $220,000, including your house, because you're weirdos, in seven years. Count it down. Let's let your debt-free scream rip.

Ready?

Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Woo! Woo!

So we're going to hook you guys up with two every-dollar gift cards that you can give away. It's a year of every-dollar subscription. You can give it away to somebody in need, or you can use it for yourself. And, Jade, this is how it's done.

This is how it's done. Picture-perfect.

Picture-perfect. Seven years, slowly chipping away. Now, forever, no house payment, and those little girls are never going to know money stress.

in that house. Changing the family tree, that's what it's all about.

Amazing. If you're listening, yes, you can too. We'll be right back.

That's some different math, JT.

Yeah. He definitely brought sexy back, but he did not bring math back. He did not bring math back.

He brought mathematics back. Yeah. I feel like that's a quote that Michael Scott would have on his office wall.

I think I'm going to get this thing printed up and put in our suite back there. Oh, boy. I could just see Dave walking down the hall and pausing to read it and compute it, and his inner calculator just starts smoking. Let's go out to New York City and talk to Daniel. Hey, brother.

How you doing, guys? Nice to talk to you guys.

We're doing great, man. How can we help, man?

I sent in an email. Basically, I'm 25.. I have my own house, my second house. I'm financially successful. I got everything going on.

What happened? Where'd your friends go?

I don't know. I was just focusing on my business and doing my thing, and then, after a while, I guess maybe they just felt envious or whatnot.

Were they jealous, or did you—?

Or maybe you stopped calling them back?

Yeah, like you, didn't pour into the relationship?

No, not even. I mean, no. One of my friends I donated a car to, and then, a year later, stopped hearing from him. So, you know.

What's one of the businesses you run? You say you're a 25-year-old entrepreneur, you're very successful. What kind of business do you work in?

Well, I own a power washing and a shrink wrapping business.

Okay. So, let's say you were working on a power washing job, and one of your nozzles broke. What would you do right in the middle of the job?

Fix it.

How?

Replace it. How?

You don't have any in the truck. What are you going to go do?

Go to the store and buy some.

Okay. The store down the street's out. What are you going to do? You've got to finish this job.

I'm going to have to replace it, or reschedule the job, excuse me.

So, here's what I'm saying. You're a very smart young man, and you're very driven, and you're successful. And when it comes to your business, when it comes to honoring your word and your commitment to a customer, you will keep finding solutions and finding solutions. And so, my question for you is, why don't you love Daniel as much, at least as much as your customer?

Maybe I'm just so focused on everybody else, helping everybody else around me, that I'm not.

I think it's deeper than that, man. I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs across the country, and a lot of entrepreneurs become successful because they charge so hard, and they can charge so hard because they've been running from something their whole life. Either I'll prove it to you, I'll show you, or this illusion, this false illusion, that when I get this much money, or I get the next car, the next house, when I donate this thing, even giving can become that sometimes, then, finally, I'm going to have peace. And every time they get there, Jade said it earlier, the goalpost just moves. I'm going to buy another house.

Exactly.

So I'm telling you right now, in a weird way, you're lucky, you're finding this out at 25.

And you're right.

So my question for you is, how are you going to solve a friendship crisis? You're going to go find some friends. You're going to put yourself in a position, you might take one less job, or two less jobs, or hire somebody to get some of the work done, now that you've got some financial margin. But you're going to make a commitment to having people in your life. And unfortunately for you, it's going to be different people than you ran with when you were younger, right?

100%.

There's also part of this that I think is kind of normal. You're 25 years old. The people that you're friends with at 25 won't necessarily be there at 30, and won't necessarily be there at 40.. And so I wouldn't necessarily look at this as, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening to me. It's also part of life.

I agree. Okay. That makes sense.

And no, men, don't tell this to other men, so here you go. You have permission to be sad.

For sure, 100%.

So it's all right to take a walk, and to exhale, and say, man, I miss those guys. And, like Jade said,

I use pen in school.

No, I'm playing. So I want you to write a letter to 35-year-old Daniel.

And that's the way I'm living.

There you go. Live like no one today,

so you can live like no one tomorrow, right?

That's right. But that 35-year-old life is not going to be about square footage. It's going to be about friends who love you.

Exactly.

Is that fair?

That's fair.

All right. I'm proud of you, good man. All right. Thank you for having the courage to say, man, I'm lonely. I'm 25 and I've got it all, and I don't got anything.

Absolutely. I mean, I think there's honor. We talk all the time about changing your family tree. And so there's this piece of honor in putting your head down and doing what you have to do to make things right financially for yourself and for your family and for your kids. But at the same time,

It's an old trope by this point, but I think it was Jim Carrey that said, I wish everyone could just get a million dollars, just so you could know.

It doesn't do it.

Yeah. It doesn't solve that question that we all ask. Do you see me? And do you know me? And do you still love me?

If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization, because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do. I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you. on the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization.